Discussion:
THE LONDON BOMBINGS: 'DEAD MEN TELL NO TALES'
(too old to reply)
g***@yahoo.ca
2005-07-16 15:08:18 UTC
Permalink
(The link for this excellent article is given below)

Dead men tell no tales
Were the London bombings a set up?

William Bowles and Edward Teague, I'n'I

July 15, 2005

Mohammed Hanif, 31, and Abdul Mateen, 22, from Deeplish in Rochdale
were caught in Glasgow with 10kg of the drug, worth £1 million in
street deals. Hanif claimed that Mateen had driven him to Glasgow to
collect £500 owed to him for a car by another Asian.

Strathclyde Police drug squad detectives, acting on a tip-off, arrested
the pair and found the drugs in a car boot.
news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=1162&id=1453462004

I'm leery of conspiracy theories, especially when they involve
convoluted plots. Occam's Razor is my guide, however, ever since the
events of July 7 something has been nagging at me about the nature of
the latest terrorist attack, and not merely the timing but the methods.
Call it a gut reaction if you like but as more information has become
available my suspicions have heightened that all may not be as it
seems. And as the four young men are (conveniently) dead, we'll never
hear their side of the story.

Consider the facts:

The four knew each other, they had travelled together that day, two
from Leeds, a friend from Leeds who had moved to Luton and a Jamaican
guy who had recently arrived in Aylesbury.

The four men caught the Thamesmead train from Luton to London, Kings
Cross carrying rucksacks. They looked, said a policeman who has seen
CCTV footage from Kings Cross Main Hall as though they were going on a
walking holiday, smiling and joking.

They split up, three to die within some 20 minutes, the fourth an
eighteen year old, another hour later on a bus where he was sat on the
back seat upstairs.

Although one of them owned a spanking new, red Mercedes, they rented a
car that they left at Luton before proceeding on to London by train.
This is a common method for drug couriers to use as the number plate
scanning technology used by the police makes drug couriers very
vulnerable to being identified.

At least two had criminal records for petty crime, shop-lifting and
fraud and two of the men from Leeds had made a few trips to Pakistan, a
well known source of heroin (most of the heroin consumed in Europe and
the US comes from Afghanistan and much of it trafficked through
Pakistan). And the neighbourhood in Leeds where three of the young men
came from is a well-known source for drugs.

If we assume they were simply running what they thought were packets of
drugs, they may well have done it before, perhaps even have conducted a
'dry-run' or two and of course, 'ask no questions', just do the
run and pick up the bread.

They are given instructions, perhaps to meet someone on the tube or
bus, where they have been instructed to hand over the backpacks,
perhaps to look for a pre-arranged signal or sign that identifies the
recipient. 'Drop off the packets and pick up your £1000 when you get
back'. Easy-peasy, money for old rope as they say. For four young
working class men, the allure of quick, easy money is difficult to
resist, the perfect patsies.

Assume therefore, that they thought they were carrying drugs, perhaps
picking up the packages in Luton for shipment to London. To reduce the
possibility of interception, it is quite common to deliver the drugs
separately.

The bombs are actually timed to go off at the height of the rush hour
and conveniently, the carriers are all killed. No witnesses, no way of
tracing back to who set them up. The police are now saying that their
'handler' has in all likelihood, already left the country.

The official story is now that no timers were used but an earlier story
released by the police, alleged that timers were used (See 'Timers
Used in Blasts, Police Say; Parallels to Madrid Are Found'). If
indeed they were actually suicide bombers, we are asked to accept that
regardless of where they were on their respective journeys, at
precisely 8:50 am, they were to detonate their bombs.

The Time-line
In order for the official story to be credible, we are asked to accept
the following scenario:

They appear to have posed (conveniently) for CCTV cameras at Kings
Cross station at 8:30am only 20 minutes before three of the explosions
(8:50am) and then managed to find their way to three different
locations and detonate their bombs within seconds of each other (the
bus bomb doesn't appear to fit the precise nature of timing of the
detonations). And remember that cellphones don't work on the
underground network.

Now assuming they went their separate ways and all caught three
different trains immediately to the point where the bombs were
detonated, could they have planned to do it in 20 minutes (or less)?
The average time between stations on the London underground is 4
minutes (some are less, especially those in the centre of town).

Kings Cross to Aldgate is five stations; Kings Cross to Farringdon,
Barbican, Moorgate, Liverpool Street and Aldgate on the Circle Line.
The bomb actually went off between Liverpool Street and Aldgate. Could
the bombers have had the time to get to the station from the mainline
station, wait for a train, and get to the scene in less than twenty
minutes (this assumes that after being caught on CCTV, they caught a
train immediately).

Russell Square is just one stop on the Piccadilly Line. The bomber had
to go down two sets of escalators, wait for a train (it's one of the
deepest tube lines in London).

Edgeware Road is four stops, Kings Cross to Euston Square, Great
Portland Street, Baker Street and Edgware Road and also on the Circle
line but in the opposite direction.

The bomb on the bus
The police have alleged that the fourth bomber intended to catch a
Northern Line train but for some reason switched to the bus (the
Northern Line also goes through Kings Cross), so why did he switch?
Buses are notoriously irregular and given the almost one hour
difference in the time of the bus bomb and the police claim that timing
devices appear not have been used, what accounts for the difference?
Could it be that something went wrong with the timing device? We'll
probably never know. But it seems strange that the bomb went off on the
top of the bus and not on the lower deck where it would have done a lot
more damage. The main force of the blast seems to have been upwards and
the roof is made of light-weight aluminium, designed to do nothing more
than keep the weather out. A photo of the bus taken seconds after the
blast shows a lot of people standing on the top deck waiting to get
off. If the man, the young Jamaican carrying the bomb was a willing
participient, surely he would have positioned himself to do the most
damage, downstairs, not upstairs and at the back of the bus?

Police sources have told the BBC they had not recovered any timing
devices from the bomb scenes, possibly indicating that detonation was
by hand
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4676861.stm

Without timing devices what are the odds of all three bombs actually
being in a carriage and detonated at exactly the same time? How would
they have been able to synchronise them so precisely and know that they
were all in position?

Then we have the ease with which the police identified them. Initially,
it was assumed that they were all victims of the bombs, but then they
become the culprits (BBC news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4678837.stm). How?

What lead the police to finger the four young men on the CCTV footage?
The fact that they all had backpacks or that they were Asian and an
African-Caribbean? Anyone familar with London will know that lots of
people have those really annoying backpacks that whack you on buses and
trains, effectively doubling the space a person takes up.

The BBC story, 'Bomb investigation far from over' is adamant that

It is almost inconceivable that the four individuals could have acted
by themselves.

A group of apparently unknown, mostly very young men like this, might
have the intent to "do something" but having the capability of
turning that intent to action would require tapping into broader
expertise.
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4678807.stm

Whilst I agree that they were used, there is nothing in their
backgrounds that suggests any connection with so-called extremists,
mosques, rogue Imams or whatever. But we are told that

The best evidence for this comes from the explosives used - high
grade plastic explosives which are understood not to have been
home-made.

These kind of explosives are hard to get hold of in the UK but far
easier to get from abroad, in places such as Eastern Europe and the
Balkans.

Another source is of course the military and/or security services of
any number of countries including the UK.

Most perplexing of all is the fact, admitted by the authorities that
the alleged bombers were not on the police's "radar". Some
reports have suggested that they were 'sleepers' but methinks the
authors have read too many John le Carré novels?

The authorities have operated on the assumption that the four young men
were actually suicide bombers, not dupes, and of course, without the
four men to tell their side of the story, it's all too easy to make
the facts fit the theory as it serves the larger ideological objective
of the state to present them as 'fanatics'.

The chain of events therefore seem to point to the fact that the
location of the explosions was, to a large degree, pure chance
determined only by the instructions given to the four as to where and
when to travel to, unaware that it was to be their last trip.

Was it a Mossad Set up?
If the drug running scenario is true there is still the issue of who
set them up? One puzzling aspect of the events leading up to the
bombings is the story, put out by AP that Binyamin Netanyahu was warned
not to leave his hotel room (he was staying at the Great Western Hotel,
adjacent to Liverpool Street Station) on the morning of the blasts, the
story being pulled later in the day

Report: Israel Was Warned Ahead of First Blast
Arutz Sheva | July 7 2005
(IsraelNN.com) Army Radio quoting unconfirmed reliable sources reported
a short time ago that Scotland Yard had intelligence warnings of the
attacks a short time before they occurred.

The Israeli Embassy in London was notified in advance, resulting in
Finance Minister Binyamin Netanyahu remaining in his hotel room rather
than make his way to the hotel adjacent to the site of the first
explosion, a Liverpool Street train station, where he was to address
and [sic] economic summit.

At present, train and bus service in London have been suspended
following the series of attacks. No terrorist organization has claimed
responsibility at this time.

Israeli officials stress the advanced Scotland Yard warning does not in
any way indicate Israel was the target in the series of apparent terror
attacks.

Mossad has a well-documented history of using bombings to take out
opponents or as provocations and to make it look as if they were
carried out by someone else, the last being the assassination of Hariri
in Beirut, Lebanon that the UN investigation has revealed was a
well-planned assassination with the bomb buried under the road well in
advance (see 'How the bomb was planted'). And, they often employ
the use of locals to perform their operations.

Of course none of this can be proved, it is conjecture but given all
the circumstances, the backgrounds of the four young men and their
movements, the timing of the explosions, and importantly, it accounts
for why the police's account has taken so many twists and turns.
Initially, we were told that the bombs were detonated by timers and
that no suicide bombers were involved. The change of story makes sense
if we assume that the four young men were not aware that they were
carrying bombs. The police have taken the evidence and used it to fit a
pre-determined scenario.

The government of course is making use of the event to get even more
repressive measures passed, and was quick to blame al-Qu'eda and the
'international terror network' for the deadly attacks.

:: Article nr. 13725 sent on 16-jul-2005 01:48 ECT

:: The address of this page is : www.uruknet.info?p=13725

:: The incoming address of this article is :
www.williambowles.info/ini/ini-0348.html
_____________________________________

Re-posted under 'Fair Use' provisions
_____________________________________
William Grosvenor
2005-07-16 15:12:08 UTC
Permalink
The bombings were a leftist plot by our new enemy, the British, to discredit
Bush's victory in the war on terrorism.

Did you notice that they did it while he was there?
Post by g***@yahoo.ca
(The link for this excellent article is given below)
Dead men tell no tales
Were the London bombings a set up?
William Bowles and Edward Teague, I'n'I
July 15, 2005
Mohammed Hanif, 31, and Abdul Mateen, 22, from Deeplish in Rochdale
were caught in Glasgow with 10kg of the drug, worth £1 million in
street deals. Hanif claimed that Mateen had driven him to Glasgow to
collect £500 owed to him for a car by another Asian.
Strathclyde Police drug squad detectives, acting on a tip-off, arrested
the pair and found the drugs in a car boot.
news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=1162&id=1453462004
I'm leery of conspiracy theories, especially when they involve
convoluted plots. Occam's Razor is my guide, however, ever since the
events of July 7 something has been nagging at me about the nature of
the latest terrorist attack, and not merely the timing but the methods.
Call it a gut reaction if you like but as more information has become
available my suspicions have heightened that all may not be as it
seems. And as the four young men are (conveniently) dead, we'll never
hear their side of the story.
The four knew each other, they had travelled together that day, two
from Leeds, a friend from Leeds who had moved to Luton and a Jamaican
guy who had recently arrived in Aylesbury.
The four men caught the Thamesmead train from Luton to London, Kings
Cross carrying rucksacks. They looked, said a policeman who has seen
CCTV footage from Kings Cross Main Hall as though they were going on a
walking holiday, smiling and joking.
They split up, three to die within some 20 minutes, the fourth an
eighteen year old, another hour later on a bus where he was sat on the
back seat upstairs.
Although one of them owned a spanking new, red Mercedes, they rented a
car that they left at Luton before proceeding on to London by train.
This is a common method for drug couriers to use as the number plate
scanning technology used by the police makes drug couriers very
vulnerable to being identified.
At least two had criminal records for petty crime, shop-lifting and
fraud and two of the men from Leeds had made a few trips to Pakistan, a
well known source of heroin (most of the heroin consumed in Europe and
the US comes from Afghanistan and much of it trafficked through
Pakistan). And the neighbourhood in Leeds where three of the young men
came from is a well-known source for drugs.
If we assume they were simply running what they thought were packets of
drugs, they may well have done it before, perhaps even have conducted a
'dry-run' or two and of course, 'ask no questions', just do the
run and pick up the bread.
They are given instructions, perhaps to meet someone on the tube or
bus, where they have been instructed to hand over the backpacks,
perhaps to look for a pre-arranged signal or sign that identifies the
recipient. 'Drop off the packets and pick up your £1000 when you get
back'. Easy-peasy, money for old rope as they say. For four young
working class men, the allure of quick, easy money is difficult to
resist, the perfect patsies.
Assume therefore, that they thought they were carrying drugs, perhaps
picking up the packages in Luton for shipment to London. To reduce the
possibility of interception, it is quite common to deliver the drugs
separately.
The bombs are actually timed to go off at the height of the rush hour
and conveniently, the carriers are all killed. No witnesses, no way of
tracing back to who set them up. The police are now saying that their
'handler' has in all likelihood, already left the country.
The official story is now that no timers were used but an earlier story
released by the police, alleged that timers were used (See 'Timers
Used in Blasts, Police Say; Parallels to Madrid Are Found'). If
indeed they were actually suicide bombers, we are asked to accept that
regardless of where they were on their respective journeys, at
precisely 8:50 am, they were to detonate their bombs.
The Time-line
In order for the official story to be credible, we are asked to accept
They appear to have posed (conveniently) for CCTV cameras at Kings
Cross station at 8:30am only 20 minutes before three of the explosions
(8:50am) and then managed to find their way to three different
locations and detonate their bombs within seconds of each other (the
bus bomb doesn't appear to fit the precise nature of timing of the
detonations). And remember that cellphones don't work on the
underground network.
Now assuming they went their separate ways and all caught three
different trains immediately to the point where the bombs were
detonated, could they have planned to do it in 20 minutes (or less)?
The average time between stations on the London underground is 4
minutes (some are less, especially those in the centre of town).
Kings Cross to Aldgate is five stations; Kings Cross to Farringdon,
Barbican, Moorgate, Liverpool Street and Aldgate on the Circle Line.
The bomb actually went off between Liverpool Street and Aldgate. Could
the bombers have had the time to get to the station from the mainline
station, wait for a train, and get to the scene in less than twenty
minutes (this assumes that after being caught on CCTV, they caught a
train immediately).
Russell Square is just one stop on the Piccadilly Line. The bomber had
to go down two sets of escalators, wait for a train (it's one of the
deepest tube lines in London).
Edgeware Road is four stops, Kings Cross to Euston Square, Great
Portland Street, Baker Street and Edgware Road and also on the Circle
line but in the opposite direction.
The bomb on the bus
The police have alleged that the fourth bomber intended to catch a
Northern Line train but for some reason switched to the bus (the
Northern Line also goes through Kings Cross), so why did he switch?
Buses are notoriously irregular and given the almost one hour
difference in the time of the bus bomb and the police claim that timing
devices appear not have been used, what accounts for the difference?
Could it be that something went wrong with the timing device? We'll
probably never know. But it seems strange that the bomb went off on the
top of the bus and not on the lower deck where it would have done a lot
more damage. The main force of the blast seems to have been upwards and
the roof is made of light-weight aluminium, designed to do nothing more
than keep the weather out. A photo of the bus taken seconds after the
blast shows a lot of people standing on the top deck waiting to get
off. If the man, the young Jamaican carrying the bomb was a willing
participient, surely he would have positioned himself to do the most
damage, downstairs, not upstairs and at the back of the bus?
Police sources have told the BBC they had not recovered any timing
devices from the bomb scenes, possibly indicating that detonation was
by hand
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4676861.stm
Without timing devices what are the odds of all three bombs actually
being in a carriage and detonated at exactly the same time? How would
they have been able to synchronise them so precisely and know that they
were all in position?
Then we have the ease with which the police identified them. Initially,
it was assumed that they were all victims of the bombs, but then they
become the culprits (BBC news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4678837.stm). How?
What lead the police to finger the four young men on the CCTV footage?
The fact that they all had backpacks or that they were Asian and an
African-Caribbean? Anyone familar with London will know that lots of
people have those really annoying backpacks that whack you on buses and
trains, effectively doubling the space a person takes up.
The BBC story, 'Bomb investigation far from over' is adamant that
It is almost inconceivable that the four individuals could have acted
by themselves.
A group of apparently unknown, mostly very young men like this, might
have the intent to "do something" but having the capability of
turning that intent to action would require tapping into broader
expertise.
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4678807.stm
Whilst I agree that they were used, there is nothing in their
backgrounds that suggests any connection with so-called extremists,
mosques, rogue Imams or whatever. But we are told that
The best evidence for this comes from the explosives used - high
grade plastic explosives which are understood not to have been
home-made.
These kind of explosives are hard to get hold of in the UK but far
easier to get from abroad, in places such as Eastern Europe and the
Balkans.
Another source is of course the military and/or security services of
any number of countries including the UK.
Most perplexing of all is the fact, admitted by the authorities that
the alleged bombers were not on the police's "radar". Some
reports have suggested that they were 'sleepers' but methinks the
authors have read too many John le Carré novels?
The authorities have operated on the assumption that the four young men
were actually suicide bombers, not dupes, and of course, without the
four men to tell their side of the story, it's all too easy to make
the facts fit the theory as it serves the larger ideological objective
of the state to present them as 'fanatics'.
The chain of events therefore seem to point to the fact that the
location of the explosions was, to a large degree, pure chance
determined only by the instructions given to the four as to where and
when to travel to, unaware that it was to be their last trip.
Was it a Mossad Set up?
If the drug running scenario is true there is still the issue of who
set them up? One puzzling aspect of the events leading up to the
bombings is the story, put out by AP that Binyamin Netanyahu was warned
not to leave his hotel room (he was staying at the Great Western Hotel,
adjacent to Liverpool Street Station) on the morning of the blasts, the
story being pulled later in the day
Report: Israel Was Warned Ahead of First Blast
Arutz Sheva | July 7 2005
(IsraelNN.com) Army Radio quoting unconfirmed reliable sources reported
a short time ago that Scotland Yard had intelligence warnings of the
attacks a short time before they occurred.
The Israeli Embassy in London was notified in advance, resulting in
Finance Minister Binyamin Netanyahu remaining in his hotel room rather
than make his way to the hotel adjacent to the site of the first
explosion, a Liverpool Street train station, where he was to address
and [sic] economic summit.
At present, train and bus service in London have been suspended
following the series of attacks. No terrorist organization has claimed
responsibility at this time.
Israeli officials stress the advanced Scotland Yard warning does not in
any way indicate Israel was the target in the series of apparent terror
attacks.
Mossad has a well-documented history of using bombings to take out
opponents or as provocations and to make it look as if they were
carried out by someone else, the last being the assassination of Hariri
in Beirut, Lebanon that the UN investigation has revealed was a
well-planned assassination with the bomb buried under the road well in
advance (see 'How the bomb was planted'). And, they often employ
the use of locals to perform their operations.
Of course none of this can be proved, it is conjecture but given all
the circumstances, the backgrounds of the four young men and their
movements, the timing of the explosions, and importantly, it accounts
for why the police's account has taken so many twists and turns.
Initially, we were told that the bombs were detonated by timers and
that no suicide bombers were involved. The change of story makes sense
if we assume that the four young men were not aware that they were
carrying bombs. The police have taken the evidence and used it to fit a
pre-determined scenario.
The government of course is making use of the event to get even more
repressive measures passed, and was quick to blame al-Qu'eda and the
'international terror network' for the deadly attacks.
:: Article nr. 13725 sent on 16-jul-2005 01:48 ECT
:: The address of this page is : www.uruknet.info?p=13725
www.williambowles.info/ini/ini-0348.html
_____________________________________
Re-posted under 'Fair Use' provisions
_____________________________________
Maria
2005-07-16 15:24:32 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 11:12:08 -0400, William Grosvenor
Post by William Grosvenor
The bombings were a leftist plot by our new enemy, the British,
Oh great.
Post by William Grosvenor
to discredit
Bush's victory in the war on terrorism.
Or maybe American leftists did it for the same reason!
I would guess that the attacks left more of an impression on the
Americans than the British.
Post by William Grosvenor
Did you notice that they did it while he was there?
They also did it while Netanyahu was here, and Giuiliani (who was
nearby when one bomb exploded).

Don't worry - by the end of nxt week, we'll have crucified ourselves
enough that you'll have little doubt whose side we are on.
Patriot
2005-07-16 20:22:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maria
On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 11:12:08 -0400, William Grosvenor
Post by William Grosvenor
The bombings were a leftist plot by our new enemy, the British,
Oh great.
Post by William Grosvenor
to discredit
Bush's victory in the war on terrorism.
Or maybe American leftists did it for the same reason!
I would guess that the attacks left more of an impression on the
Americans than the British.
Post by William Grosvenor
Did you notice that they did it while he was there?
They also did it while Netanyahu was here, and Giuiliani (who was
nearby when one bomb exploded).
Don't worry - by the end of nxt week, we'll have crucified ourselves
enough that you'll have little doubt whose side we are on.
I guest it is to hell everyone that the investigators are no longer
speaking of "military" explosive. For one, the officials have now moved
down to "home made" explosive. What's next...?

Are they the same group who investigated Diana's death ?
--
PK
g***@yahoo.ca
2005-07-17 03:32:20 UTC
Permalink
See 'Israel To Kill In U.S., Allied Nations' at
http://groups.google.ca/group/uk.politics.misc/browse_frm/thread/cd142249bb745d88/c49e3947fb51197a?q=globalcheckup&rnum=4&hl=en#c49e3947fb51197a
/\\ /\\ /\\
2005-07-16 19:12:53 UTC
Permalink
20 mins is long enough, just. I speak from experience of london transport
over may years.
You wait all day then four of them come along all at once.

<***@yahoo.ca> wrote in message news:***@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
(The link for this excellent article is given below)

Dead men tell no tales
Were the London bombings a set up?

William Bowles and Edward Teague, I'n'I

July 15, 2005

Mohammed Hanif, 31, and Abdul Mateen, 22, from Deeplish in Rochdale
were caught in Glasgow with 10kg of the drug, worth £1 million in
street deals. Hanif claimed that Mateen had driven him to Glasgow to
collect £500 owed to him for a car by another Asian.

Strathclyde Police drug squad detectives, acting on a tip-off, arrested
the pair and found the drugs in a car boot.
news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=1162&id=1453462004

I'm leery of conspiracy theories, especially when they involve
convoluted plots. Occam's Razor is my guide, however, ever since the
events of July 7 something has been nagging at me about the nature of
the latest terrorist attack, and not merely the timing but the methods.
Call it a gut reaction if you like but as more information has become
available my suspicions have heightened that all may not be as it
seems. And as the four young men are (conveniently) dead, we'll never
hear their side of the story.

Consider the facts:

The four knew each other, they had travelled together that day, two
from Leeds, a friend from Leeds who had moved to Luton and a Jamaican
guy who had recently arrived in Aylesbury.

The four men caught the Thamesmead train from Luton to London, Kings
Cross carrying rucksacks. They looked, said a policeman who has seen
CCTV footage from Kings Cross Main Hall as though they were going on a
walking holiday, smiling and joking.

They split up, three to die within some 20 minutes, the fourth an
eighteen year old, another hour later on a bus where he was sat on the
back seat upstairs.

Although one of them owned a spanking new, red Mercedes, they rented a
car that they left at Luton before proceeding on to London by train.
This is a common method for drug couriers to use as the number plate
scanning technology used by the police makes drug couriers very
vulnerable to being identified.

At least two had criminal records for petty crime, shop-lifting and
fraud and two of the men from Leeds had made a few trips to Pakistan, a
well known source of heroin (most of the heroin consumed in Europe and
the US comes from Afghanistan and much of it trafficked through
Pakistan). And the neighbourhood in Leeds where three of the young men
came from is a well-known source for drugs.

If we assume they were simply running what they thought were packets of
drugs, they may well have done it before, perhaps even have conducted a
'dry-run' or two and of course, 'ask no questions', just do the
run and pick up the bread.

They are given instructions, perhaps to meet someone on the tube or
bus, where they have been instructed to hand over the backpacks,
perhaps to look for a pre-arranged signal or sign that identifies the
recipient. 'Drop off the packets and pick up your £1000 when you get
back'. Easy-peasy, money for old rope as they say. For four young
working class men, the allure of quick, easy money is difficult to
resist, the perfect patsies.

Assume therefore, that they thought they were carrying drugs, perhaps
picking up the packages in Luton for shipment to London. To reduce the
possibility of interception, it is quite common to deliver the drugs
separately.

The bombs are actually timed to go off at the height of the rush hour
and conveniently, the carriers are all killed. No witnesses, no way of
tracing back to who set them up. The police are now saying that their
'handler' has in all likelihood, already left the country.

The official story is now that no timers were used but an earlier story
released by the police, alleged that timers were used (See 'Timers
Used in Blasts, Police Say; Parallels to Madrid Are Found'). If
indeed they were actually suicide bombers, we are asked to accept that
regardless of where they were on their respective journeys, at
precisely 8:50 am, they were to detonate their bombs.

The Time-line
In order for the official story to be credible, we are asked to accept
the following scenario:

They appear to have posed (conveniently) for CCTV cameras at Kings
Cross station at 8:30am only 20 minutes before three of the explosions
(8:50am) and then managed to find their way to three different
locations and detonate their bombs within seconds of each other (the
bus bomb doesn't appear to fit the precise nature of timing of the
detonations). And remember that cellphones don't work on the
underground network.

Now assuming they went their separate ways and all caught three
different trains immediately to the point where the bombs were
detonated, could they have planned to do it in 20 minutes (or less)?
The average time between stations on the London underground is 4
minutes (some are less, especially those in the centre of town).

Kings Cross to Aldgate is five stations; Kings Cross to Farringdon,
Barbican, Moorgate, Liverpool Street and Aldgate on the Circle Line.
The bomb actually went off between Liverpool Street and Aldgate. Could
the bombers have had the time to get to the station from the mainline
station, wait for a train, and get to the scene in less than twenty
minutes (this assumes that after being caught on CCTV, they caught a
train immediately).

Russell Square is just one stop on the Piccadilly Line. The bomber had
to go down two sets of escalators, wait for a train (it's one of the
deepest tube lines in London).

Edgeware Road is four stops, Kings Cross to Euston Square, Great
Portland Street, Baker Street and Edgware Road and also on the Circle
line but in the opposite direction.

The bomb on the bus
The police have alleged that the fourth bomber intended to catch a
Northern Line train but for some reason switched to the bus (the
Northern Line also goes through Kings Cross), so why did he switch?
Buses are notoriously irregular and given the almost one hour
difference in the time of the bus bomb and the police claim that timing
devices appear not have been used, what accounts for the difference?
Could it be that something went wrong with the timing device? We'll
probably never know. But it seems strange that the bomb went off on the
top of the bus and not on the lower deck where it would have done a lot
more damage. The main force of the blast seems to have been upwards and
the roof is made of light-weight aluminium, designed to do nothing more
than keep the weather out. A photo of the bus taken seconds after the
blast shows a lot of people standing on the top deck waiting to get
off. If the man, the young Jamaican carrying the bomb was a willing
participient, surely he would have positioned himself to do the most
damage, downstairs, not upstairs and at the back of the bus?

Police sources have told the BBC they had not recovered any timing
devices from the bomb scenes, possibly indicating that detonation was
by hand
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4676861.stm

Without timing devices what are the odds of all three bombs actually
being in a carriage and detonated at exactly the same time? How would
they have been able to synchronise them so precisely and know that they
were all in position?

Then we have the ease with which the police identified them. Initially,
it was assumed that they were all victims of the bombs, but then they
become the culprits (BBC news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4678837.stm). How?

What lead the police to finger the four young men on the CCTV footage?
The fact that they all had backpacks or that they were Asian and an
African-Caribbean? Anyone familar with London will know that lots of
people have those really annoying backpacks that whack you on buses and
trains, effectively doubling the space a person takes up.

The BBC story, 'Bomb investigation far from over' is adamant that

It is almost inconceivable that the four individuals could have acted
by themselves.

A group of apparently unknown, mostly very young men like this, might
have the intent to "do something" but having the capability of
turning that intent to action would require tapping into broader
expertise.
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4678807.stm

Whilst I agree that they were used, there is nothing in their
backgrounds that suggests any connection with so-called extremists,
mosques, rogue Imams or whatever. But we are told that

The best evidence for this comes from the explosives used - high
grade plastic explosives which are understood not to have been
home-made.

These kind of explosives are hard to get hold of in the UK but far
easier to get from abroad, in places such as Eastern Europe and the
Balkans.

Another source is of course the military and/or security services of
any number of countries including the UK.

Most perplexing of all is the fact, admitted by the authorities that
the alleged bombers were not on the police's "radar". Some
reports have suggested that they were 'sleepers' but methinks the
authors have read too many John le Carré novels?

The authorities have operated on the assumption that the four young men
were actually suicide bombers, not dupes, and of course, without the
four men to tell their side of the story, it's all too easy to make
the facts fit the theory as it serves the larger ideological objective
of the state to present them as 'fanatics'.

The chain of events therefore seem to point to the fact that the
location of the explosions was, to a large degree, pure chance
determined only by the instructions given to the four as to where and
when to travel to, unaware that it was to be their last trip.

Was it a Mossad Set up?
If the drug running scenario is true there is still the issue of who
set them up? One puzzling aspect of the events leading up to the
bombings is the story, put out by AP that Binyamin Netanyahu was warned
not to leave his hotel room (he was staying at the Great Western Hotel,
adjacent to Liverpool Street Station) on the morning of the blasts, the
story being pulled later in the day

Report: Israel Was Warned Ahead of First Blast
Arutz Sheva | July 7 2005
(IsraelNN.com) Army Radio quoting unconfirmed reliable sources reported
a short time ago that Scotland Yard had intelligence warnings of the
attacks a short time before they occurred.

The Israeli Embassy in London was notified in advance, resulting in
Finance Minister Binyamin Netanyahu remaining in his hotel room rather
than make his way to the hotel adjacent to the site of the first
explosion, a Liverpool Street train station, where he was to address
and [sic] economic summit.

At present, train and bus service in London have been suspended
following the series of attacks. No terrorist organization has claimed
responsibility at this time.

Israeli officials stress the advanced Scotland Yard warning does not in
any way indicate Israel was the target in the series of apparent terror
attacks.

Mossad has a well-documented history of using bombings to take out
opponents or as provocations and to make it look as if they were
carried out by someone else, the last being the assassination of Hariri
in Beirut, Lebanon that the UN investigation has revealed was a
well-planned assassination with the bomb buried under the road well in
advance (see 'How the bomb was planted'). And, they often employ
the use of locals to perform their operations.

Of course none of this can be proved, it is conjecture but given all
the circumstances, the backgrounds of the four young men and their
movements, the timing of the explosions, and importantly, it accounts
for why the police's account has taken so many twists and turns.
Initially, we were told that the bombs were detonated by timers and
that no suicide bombers were involved. The change of story makes sense
if we assume that the four young men were not aware that they were
carrying bombs. The police have taken the evidence and used it to fit a
pre-determined scenario.

The government of course is making use of the event to get even more
repressive measures passed, and was quick to blame al-Qu'eda and the
'international terror network' for the deadly attacks.

:: Article nr. 13725 sent on 16-jul-2005 01:48 ECT

:: The address of this page is : www.uruknet.info?p=13725

:: The incoming address of this article is :
www.williambowles.info/ini/ini-0348.html
_____________________________________

Re-posted under 'Fair Use' provisions
_____________________________________
t***@nocomment.com
2005-07-16 19:17:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by /\\ /\\ /\\
20 mins is long enough, just. I speak from experience of london transport
over may years.
You wait all day then four of them come along all at once.
(The link for this excellent article is given below)
Dead men tell no tales
Were the London bombings a set up?
William Bowles and Edward Teague, I'n'I
July 15, 2005
Mohammed Hanif, 31, and Abdul Mateen, 22, from Deeplish in Rochdale
were caught in Glasgow with 10kg of the drug, worth £1 million in
street deals. Hanif claimed that Mateen had driven him to Glasgow to
collect £500 owed to him for a car by another Asian.
Strathclyde Police drug squad detectives, acting on a tip-off, arrested
the pair and found the drugs in a car boot.
news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=1162&id=1453462004
I'm leery of conspiracy theories, especially when they involve
convoluted plots. Occam's Razor is my guide, however, ever since the
events of July 7 something has been nagging at me about the nature of
the latest terrorist attack, and not merely the timing but the methods.
Call it a gut reaction if you like but as more information has become
available my suspicions have heightened that all may not be as it
seems. And as the four young men are (conveniently) dead, we'll never
hear their side of the story.
The four knew each other, they had travelled together that day, two
from Leeds, a friend from Leeds who had moved to Luton and a Jamaican
guy who had recently arrived in Aylesbury.
The four men caught the Thamesmead train from Luton to London, Kings
Cross carrying rucksacks. They looked, said a policeman who has seen
CCTV footage from Kings Cross Main Hall as though they were going on a
walking holiday, smiling and joking.
They split up, three to die within some 20 minutes, the fourth an
eighteen year old, another hour later on a bus where he was sat on the
back seat upstairs.
Although one of them owned a spanking new, red Mercedes, they rented a
car that they left at Luton before proceeding on to London by train.
This is a common method for drug couriers to use as the number plate
scanning technology used by the police makes drug couriers very
vulnerable to being identified.
At least two had criminal records for petty crime, shop-lifting and
fraud and two of the men from Leeds had made a few trips to Pakistan, a
well known source of heroin (most of the heroin consumed in Europe and
the US comes from Afghanistan and much of it trafficked through
Pakistan). And the neighbourhood in Leeds where three of the young men
came from is a well-known source for drugs.
If we assume they were simply running what they thought were packets of
drugs, they may well have done it before, perhaps even have conducted a
'dry-run' or two and of course, 'ask no questions', just do the
run and pick up the bread.
They are given instructions, perhaps to meet someone on the tube or
bus, where they have been instructed to hand over the backpacks,
perhaps to look for a pre-arranged signal or sign that identifies the
recipient. 'Drop off the packets and pick up your £1000 when you get
back'. Easy-peasy, money for old rope as they say. For four young
working class men, the allure of quick, easy money is difficult to
resist, the perfect patsies.
Assume therefore, that they thought they were carrying drugs, perhaps
picking up the packages in Luton for shipment to London. To reduce the
possibility of interception, it is quite common to deliver the drugs
separately.
The bombs are actually timed to go off at the height of the rush hour
and conveniently, the carriers are all killed. No witnesses, no way of
tracing back to who set them up. The police are now saying that their
'handler' has in all likelihood, already left the country.
The official story is now that no timers were used but an earlier story
released by the police, alleged that timers were used (See 'Timers
Used in Blasts, Police Say; Parallels to Madrid Are Found'). If
indeed they were actually suicide bombers, we are asked to accept that
regardless of where they were on their respective journeys, at
precisely 8:50 am, they were to detonate their bombs.
The Time-line
In order for the official story to be credible, we are asked to accept
They appear to have posed (conveniently) for CCTV cameras at Kings
Cross station at 8:30am only 20 minutes before three of the explosions
(8:50am) and then managed to find their way to three different
locations and detonate their bombs within seconds of each other (the
bus bomb doesn't appear to fit the precise nature of timing of the
detonations). And remember that cellphones don't work on the
underground network.
Now assuming they went their separate ways and all caught three
different trains immediately to the point where the bombs were
detonated, could they have planned to do it in 20 minutes (or less)?
The average time between stations on the London underground is 4
minutes (some are less, especially those in the centre of town).
Kings Cross to Aldgate is five stations; Kings Cross to Farringdon,
Barbican, Moorgate, Liverpool Street and Aldgate on the Circle Line.
The bomb actually went off between Liverpool Street and Aldgate. Could
the bombers have had the time to get to the station from the mainline
station, wait for a train, and get to the scene in less than twenty
minutes (this assumes that after being caught on CCTV, they caught a
train immediately).
Russell Square is just one stop on the Piccadilly Line. The bomber had
to go down two sets of escalators, wait for a train (it's one of the
deepest tube lines in London).
Edgeware Road is four stops, Kings Cross to Euston Square, Great
Portland Street, Baker Street and Edgware Road and also on the Circle
line but in the opposite direction.
The bomb on the bus
The police have alleged that the fourth bomber intended to catch a
Northern Line train but for some reason switched to the bus (the
Northern Line also goes through Kings Cross), so why did he switch?
Buses are notoriously irregular and given the almost one hour
difference in the time of the bus bomb and the police claim that timing
devices appear not have been used, what accounts for the difference?
Could it be that something went wrong with the timing device? We'll
probably never know. But it seems strange that the bomb went off on the
top of the bus and not on the lower deck where it would have done a lot
more damage. The main force of the blast seems to have been upwards and
the roof is made of light-weight aluminium, designed to do nothing more
than keep the weather out. A photo of the bus taken seconds after the
blast shows a lot of people standing on the top deck waiting to get
off. If the man, the young Jamaican carrying the bomb was a willing
participient, surely he would have positioned himself to do the most
damage, downstairs, not upstairs and at the back of the bus?
Police sources have told the BBC they had not recovered any timing
devices from the bomb scenes, possibly indicating that detonation was
by hand
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4676861.stm
Without timing devices what are the odds of all three bombs actually
being in a carriage and detonated at exactly the same time? How would
they have been able to synchronise them so precisely and know that they
were all in position?
Then we have the ease with which the police identified them. Initially,
it was assumed that they were all victims of the bombs, but then they
become the culprits (BBC news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4678837.stm). How?
What lead the police to finger the four young men on the CCTV footage?
The fact that they all had backpacks or that they were Asian and an
African-Caribbean? Anyone familar with London will know that lots of
people have those really annoying backpacks that whack you on buses and
trains, effectively doubling the space a person takes up.
The BBC story, 'Bomb investigation far from over' is adamant that
It is almost inconceivable that the four individuals could have acted
by themselves.
A group of apparently unknown, mostly very young men like this, might
have the intent to "do something" but having the capability of
turning that intent to action would require tapping into broader
expertise.
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4678807.stm
Whilst I agree that they were used, there is nothing in their
backgrounds that suggests any connection with so-called extremists,
mosques, rogue Imams or whatever. But we are told that
The best evidence for this comes from the explosives used - high
grade plastic explosives which are understood not to have been
home-made.
These kind of explosives are hard to get hold of in the UK but far
easier to get from abroad, in places such as Eastern Europe and the
Balkans.
Another source is of course the military and/or security services of
any number of countries including the UK.
Most perplexing of all is the fact, admitted by the authorities that
the alleged bombers were not on the police's "radar". Some
reports have suggested that they were 'sleepers' but methinks the
authors have read too many John le Carré novels?
The authorities have operated on the assumption that the four young men
were actually suicide bombers, not dupes, and of course, without the
four men to tell their side of the story, it's all too easy to make
the facts fit the theory as it serves the larger ideological objective
of the state to present them as 'fanatics'.
The chain of events therefore seem to point to the fact that the
location of the explosions was, to a large degree, pure chance
determined only by the instructions given to the four as to where and
when to travel to, unaware that it was to be their last trip.
Was it a Mossad Set up?
If the drug running scenario is true there is still the issue of who
set them up? One puzzling aspect of the events leading up to the
bombings is the story, put out by AP that Binyamin Netanyahu was warned
not to leave his hotel room (he was staying at the Great Western Hotel,
adjacent to Liverpool Street Station) on the morning of the blasts, the
story being pulled later in the day
Report: Israel Was Warned Ahead of First Blast
Arutz Sheva | July 7 2005
(IsraelNN.com) Army Radio quoting unconfirmed reliable sources reported
a short time ago that Scotland Yard had intelligence warnings of the
attacks a short time before they occurred.
The Israeli Embassy in London was notified in advance, resulting in
Finance Minister Binyamin Netanyahu remaining in his hotel room rather
than make his way to the hotel adjacent to the site of the first
explosion, a Liverpool Street train station, where he was to address
and [sic] economic summit.
At present, train and bus service in London have been suspended
following the series of attacks. No terrorist organization has claimed
responsibility at this time.
Israeli officials stress the advanced Scotland Yard warning does not in
any way indicate Israel was the target in the series of apparent terror
attacks.
Mossad has a well-documented history of using bombings to take out
opponents or as provocations and to make it look as if they were
carried out by someone else, the last being the assassination of Hariri
in Beirut, Lebanon that the UN investigation has revealed was a
well-planned assassination with the bomb buried under the road well in
advance (see 'How the bomb was planted'). And, they often employ
the use of locals to perform their operations.
Of course none of this can be proved, it is conjecture but given all
the circumstances, the backgrounds of the four young men and their
movements, the timing of the explosions, and importantly, it accounts
for why the police's account has taken so many twists and turns.
Initially, we were told that the bombs were detonated by timers and
that no suicide bombers were involved. The change of story makes sense
if we assume that the four young men were not aware that they were
carrying bombs. The police have taken the evidence and used it to fit a
pre-determined scenario.
The government of course is making use of the event to get even more
repressive measures passed, and was quick to blame al-Qu'eda and the
'international terror network' for the deadly attacks.
:: Article nr. 13725 sent on 16-jul-2005 01:48 ECT
:: The address of this page is : www.uruknet.info?p=13725
www.williambowles.info/ini/ini-0348.html
_____________________________________
Re-posted under 'Fair Use' provisions
_____________________________________
So why are these guys carrying ID? Wouldn't it have made more sense to
get rid of it? And if the guy who was making the bombs is so smart, why
didn't he tell the other guys to remove their hard drive and throw it
away or destroy it. They could have also installed a different one so
the cops wouldn't have started looking for the old one.
Robert Henderson
2005-07-17 11:34:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@yahoo.ca
The bombs are actually timed to go off at the height of the rush hour
and conveniently, the carriers are all killed. No witnesses, no way of
tracing back to who set them up. The police are now saying that their
'handler' has in all likelihood, already left the country.
The argument falls down because (1) if all the bombs were pre-set to
explode at a certain time they could not be guaranteed to go off in a
crowded place and (2) the bus bomb did not go off at the same time,.
Much more plausible is that the bombers synchronised watches and set the
bombs off manually. RH
--
Robert Henderson
Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/
Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk
Maria
2005-07-17 12:56:44 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 12:34:05 +0100, Robert Henderson
Post by Robert Henderson
Post by g***@yahoo.ca
The bombs are actually timed to go off at the height of the rush hour
and conveniently, the carriers are all killed. No witnesses, no way of
tracing back to who set them up. The police are now saying that their
'handler' has in all likelihood, already left the country.
The argument falls down because (1) if all the bombs were pre-set to
explode at a certain time they could not be guaranteed to go off in a
crowded place
The locations they chose pretty much ensured that it would be crowded.
Post by Robert Henderson
and (2) the bus bomb did not go off at the same time,.
Maybe his timer failed.
Post by Robert Henderson
Much more plausible is that the bombers synchronised watches and set the
bombs off manually. RH
How would they agree that they were all in suitably crowded places? :)
Robert Henderson
2005-07-17 13:20:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maria
Post by Robert Henderson
Much more plausible is that the bombers synchronised watches and set the
bombs off manually. RH
How would they agree that they were all in suitably crowded places? :)
They wouldn't. The agreement would be to set the bombs off at the same
time if they were. Hence, the bus bomber not going off at the same time.
RH
--
Robert Henderson
Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/
Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk
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