Discussion:
=> U$ Troops CAPTURED, HELD by Iraqi's ...Bremmer offer's deal to murderer
(too old to reply)
=> Vox Populi ©
2004-04-08 01:51:23 UTC
Permalink
So the Iraqis can hold the U$ invaders as "enemy combatants",
and blindfold them and move them to Syria or Somalia,
hold them incommunicado and allow/encourage the foreign
hosts to torture them for information ... just like the U$ does
with its "enemy combatants" ... right?


Al-Sadr aide says Iraqis have captured coalition soldiers

April 8, 2004

A top aide to the militant Iraqi cleric Moqtada al-Sadr said his supporters had
captured a number of soldiers from the US-led coalition during clashes currently
taking place across a large swath of Iraq.

"Some tribes have captured some occupation forces on the streets," Qays
al-Khazali told a news conference in the Shi'ite Muslim holy city of Najaf.

He gave no further details. The news conference was broadcast by Lebanon's
al-Manar television station, mouthpiece of the Hizbollah group.

There was no immediate comment on the report from the command of US-led forces
in Baghdad.

Meanwhile, the White House called on Moqtada al-Sadr to turn himself in to
authorities to end the violence and said he will ultimately fail in his quest to
oust foreign forces from the country.

A judge in Iraq has issued an arrest warrant for Sadr in connection with the
2003 murder of another cleric who returned to the country.

He has denied any involvement in the incident.

The US-led coalition has not yet tried to bring in Sadr but has said it will do
so.

"He is seeking to use a violent power play to try to undermine democracy for the
Iraqi people, but he will not succeed," said White House spokesman Scott
McClellan.

"He could bring an end to some of the violence that's going on by turning
himself in."

For several days, US-led forces have been battling Shi'ite militants in Iraq and
incurring as well as inflicting heavy casualties.

At least 35 coalition soldiers and scores of Iraqis have been killed in the
fighting.

The US-backed Iraqi Governing Council discussed earlier today offering Sadr a
deal to not prosecute him for the alleged murder if he agreed to halt the
uprising.

Reuters
--
"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our
number one priority and we will not rest until we find him."
~ George Bush Jr. 2001-09-13

"I don't know where he (bin Laden) is. I have no idea and I really don't care.
It's not that important. It's not our priority."
~ George Bush Jr. 2002-03-13
Clough
2004-04-08 09:46:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by => Vox Populi ©
So the Iraqis can hold the U$ invaders as "enemy combatants",
and blindfold them and move them to Syria or Somalia,
hold them incommunicado and allow/encourage the foreign
hosts to torture them for information ... just like the U$ does
with its "enemy combatants" ... right?
It would not be a good idea to send the Merikunt prisoners to Syria,
it would be far better to send them chains to Hamas and let them hold
them for as long as the Merikunts keep Islamic fighters prisoner in
Guatanamo Bay.

Clough
Bigot
2004-04-08 12:36:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clough
It would not be a good idea to send the Merikunt prisoners to Syria,
it would be far better to send them chains to Hamas and let them hold
them for as long as the Merikunts keep Islamic fighters prisoner in
Guatanamo Bay.
Got to disagree with you there old chap, that is a simplistic approach and
will never work.
Better for the Iraqis to return them unharmed and well treated, this will be
reported by the soldiers themselves to the meeja and will rapidly betray the
US guvinmints falsehoods.
The reason your methods would ultimately fail is that despite "saving
Private Ryan" et al, the Guvinmint of Shrub simply doesn't care!
strabo
2004-04-08 18:23:26 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 8 Apr 2004 13:36:15 +0100, "Bigot"
Post by Bigot
Post by Clough
It would not be a good idea to send the Merikunt prisoners to Syria,
it would be far better to send them chains to Hamas and let them hold
them for as long as the Merikunts keep Islamic fighters prisoner in
Guatanamo Bay.
Got to disagree with you there old chap, that is a simplistic approach and
will never work.
Better for the Iraqis to return them unharmed and well treated, this will be
reported by the soldiers themselves to the meeja and will rapidly betray the
US guvinmints falsehoods.
The reason your methods would ultimately fail is that despite "saving
Private Ryan" et al, the Guvinmint of Shrub simply doesn't care!
Work? Well, if one assumes that the invasion of Iraq was planned
ten years ago as the prelude to destabilizing the middle east
and that fear attracts votes, then perhaps the neocon strategy
is working.

You may recall that he has said that the war on terrorism will
last a hundred years. Given that this was hyperbole maybe 10 to
20 years is realistic.
Terence Fformby-Smythe
2004-04-09 22:10:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bigot
Post by Clough
It would not be a good idea to send the Merikunt prisoners to Syria,
it would be far better to send them chains to Hamas and let them hold
them for as long as the Merikunts keep Islamic fighters prisoner in
Guatanamo Bay.
Got to disagree with you there old chap, that is a simplistic approach and
will never work.
Better for the Iraqis to return them unharmed and well treated, this will be
reported by the soldiers themselves to the meeja and will rapidly betray the
US guvinmints falsehoods.
(circumcised)
And now everything solemnly depends on the moronity concentration
level in the arab head.
Jeffrey Turner
2004-04-10 01:04:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Terence Fformby-Smythe
Post by Bigot
Post by Clough
It would not be a good idea to send the Merikunt prisoners to Syria,
it would be far better to send them chains to Hamas and let them hold
them for as long as the Merikunts keep Islamic fighters prisoner in
Guatanamo Bay.
Got to disagree with you there old chap, that is a simplistic approach and
will never work.
Better for the Iraqis to return them unharmed and well treated, this will be
reported by the soldiers themselves to the meeja and will rapidly betray the
US guvinmints falsehoods.
(circumcised)
And now everything solemnly depends on the moronity concentration
level in the arab head.
Gosh, I don't think they can outdo the Bushies in that regard, we may
be in luck.

--Jeff
--
A man, a plan, a cat, a canal - Panama!

Ho, ho, ho, hee, hee, hee
and a couple of ha, ha, has;
That's how we pass the day away,
in the merry old land of Oz.
xodus
2004-04-08 16:16:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clough
Post by => Vox Populi ©
So the Iraqis can hold the U$ invaders as "enemy combatants",
and blindfold them and move them to Syria or Somalia,
hold them incommunicado and allow/encourage the foreign
hosts to torture them for information ... just like the U$ does
with its "enemy combatants" ... right?
It would not be a good idea to send the Merikunt prisoners to Syria,
it would be far better to send them chains to Hamas and let them hold
them for as long as the Merikunts keep Islamic fighters prisoner in
That would be far better treatment than the treatment Americans
usually receive: torture, rape, decapitation, mutilation of the
corpse.

You stupid international-law-hating hypocrites don't seem to realize
that if the Arabs have abused human rights to the extent that they
have no threats left. They wantonly slaughter civilians, they
slaughtered civilians who were delivering food, now they are
threatening to burn Japanese alive. Tell me again about how much the
Arab barbarians respect the Geneva Convention.

Stupid hypocrites like you are the enemy of human rights for all!
Dirk Bruere at Neopax
2004-04-08 16:44:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by xodus
Post by Clough
Post by => Vox Populi ©
So the Iraqis can hold the U$ invaders as "enemy combatants",
and blindfold them and move them to Syria or Somalia,
hold them incommunicado and allow/encourage the foreign
hosts to torture them for information ... just like the U$ does
with its "enemy combatants" ... right?
It would not be a good idea to send the Merikunt prisoners to Syria,
it would be far better to send them chains to Hamas and let them hold
them for as long as the Merikunts keep Islamic fighters prisoner in
That would be far better treatment than the treatment Americans
usually receive: torture, rape, decapitation, mutilation of the
corpse.
You stupid international-law-hating hypocrites don't seem to realize
that if the Arabs have abused human rights to the extent that they
have no threats left. They wantonly slaughter civilians, they
slaughtered civilians who were delivering food, now they are
threatening to burn Japanese alive. Tell me again about how much the
Arab barbarians respect the Geneva Convention.
Stupid hypocrites like you are the enemy of human rights for all!
They are fighting a war against people who have invaded their country.
Such struggles are seldom pretty.
--
Dirk

The Consensus:-
The political party for the new millenium
http://www.theconsensus.org
Chris X
2004-04-08 16:49:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dirk Bruere at Neopax
Post by xodus
Post by Clough
Post by => Vox Populi ©
So the Iraqis can hold the U$ invaders as "enemy combatants",
and blindfold them and move them to Syria or Somalia,
hold them incommunicado and allow/encourage the foreign
hosts to torture them for information ... just like the U$ does
with its "enemy combatants" ... right?
It would not be a good idea to send the Merikunt prisoners to Syria,
it would be far better to send them chains to Hamas and let them hold
them for as long as the Merikunts keep Islamic fighters prisoner in
That would be far better treatment than the treatment Americans
usually receive: torture, rape, decapitation, mutilation of the
corpse.
You stupid international-law-hating hypocrites don't seem to realize
that if the Arabs have abused human rights to the extent that they
have no threats left. They wantonly slaughter civilians, they
slaughtered civilians who were delivering food, now they are
threatening to burn Japanese alive. Tell me again about how much the
Arab barbarians respect the Geneva Convention.
Stupid hypocrites like you are the enemy of human rights for all!
They are fighting a war against people who have invaded their country.
Such struggles are seldom pretty.
Very funny to note that he described us as "stupid international-law-hating
hypocrites" Oh, the irony :)
Clough
2004-04-08 22:23:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by xodus
You stupid international-law-hating hypocrites don't seem to realize
that if the Arabs have abused human rights to the extent that they
have no threats left. They wantonly slaughter civilians, they
slaughtered civilians who were delivering food, now they are
threatening to burn Japanese alive. Tell me again about how much the
Arab barbarians respect the Geneva Convention.
The Amerikunts have slaughtered tens of thousands of innocent
civilians in Iraq. The Amerikunts hold prisoners in a legal limbo in
Cuba. The Amerikunts have no respect for human life or human rights.

If the Islamic fighters have no possibility of holding captured
Amerikunts prisoner, they would be justified in putting a bullet
through their skulls.

Clough
cliff
2004-04-09 00:22:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clough
Post by xodus
You stupid international-law-hating hypocrites don't seem to realize
that if the Arabs have abused human rights to the extent that they
have no threats left. They wantonly slaughter civilians, they
slaughtered civilians who were delivering food, now they are
threatening to burn Japanese alive. Tell me again about how much the
Arab barbarians respect the Geneva Convention.
The Amerikunts have slaughtered tens of thousands of innocent
civilians in Iraq. The Amerikunts hold prisoners in a legal limbo in
Cuba. The Amerikunts have no respect for human life or human rights.
If the Islamic fighters have no possibility of holding captured
Amerikunts prisoner, they would be justified in putting a bullet
through their skulls.
Clough
It's a bitch to know you and your fellow soldiers will remain in Iraq
until being maimed or killed, with no relief in sight.
Also, that thought of "why am I here" as the soldier lay dying on a
foreign land, unable to be with his family in his last fleeting seconds.
xodus
2004-04-09 17:05:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by cliff
Post by Clough
Post by xodus
You stupid international-law-hating hypocrites don't seem to realize
that if the Arabs have abused human rights to the extent that they
have no threats left. They wantonly slaughter civilians, they
slaughtered civilians who were delivering food, now they are
threatening to burn Japanese alive. Tell me again about how much the
Arab barbarians respect the Geneva Convention.
The Amerikunts have slaughtered tens of thousands of innocent
civilians in Iraq. The Amerikunts hold prisoners in a legal limbo in
Cuba. The Amerikunts have no respect for human life or human rights.
Human rights that don't exist for Americans, who are wantonly
slaughtered with no international outcry, and only smug responses from
Euro-bigots.

The anti-American genocide continues:

PARTIAL LIST OF ISLAMIC TERRORIST ACTIVITIES

1968 Robert Kennedy assassinated
1972 Munich Olympic Massacure Sep-5,1972 (Black September)
1976 Entebbe Hostage Crisis, June 27, 1976
1979 Iran Hostage Crisis, Nov. 4, 1979 444 days
1979 Grand Mosque Seizure, Nov 20,1979
1981 Assassination of Egyptian President, Oct 6,1981
1982 Assassination of Lebanese Prime Minister, Sept 14, 1982
1983 Bombing of US Embassy in Beirut6, April 18,1983
1983 Bombing of Maring Barricks, Beruit, Oct 23,1983
1984 Hizballah Restaurant Bombing, April 12,1984
1985 Egyptian Airliner Hijacking, Nov 23,1985
1985 Rome Airport murders
1985 TWA Flight 847 hijacked, U.S. Navy diver murdered
1985 Achille Lauro hijacking, Homacidal maniac lived in saddams Iraq
1986 Aircraft Bombing in Greece, March 30, 1986
1988 Pan Am 747 Flight 103 Bombing, Lockerbie, 100's murdered
1988 Berlin Discoteque Bombing, Dec 21,1988
1992 Bombing in Israeli Embassy in Argentina, March 17,1992
1993 Attempted Assassination of Pres. Bush Sr., April 14,1993
1993 First World Trade Center bombing, February 26th, 7 Killed,
Hundreds injured, Billions
1994 Air France Hijacking, Dec 24,1994
1995 Attack on US Diplomats in Pakistan, Mar 8,1995
1995 Saudi Military Installation Attack, Nov 13, 1995
1995 Kashmiri Hostage taking, July 4,1995
1996 Khobar Towers attack
1996 Sudanese Missionarys Kidnapping, Aug 17,1996
1996 Paris Subway Explosion, Dec 3,1996
1997 Israeli Shopping Mall Bombing, Sept 4, 1997
1997 Yemeni Kidnappings, Oct 30,1997
1998 Somali Hostage taking crisis, April 15,1998
1998 U.S. Embassy Bombing in Peru, Jan 15, 1998
1998 U.S. Kenya Embassy blown up, 100's murdered
1998 U.S. Tanzania Embassy blown up, 100's murdered
1999 Plot to blow up Space Needle (thwarted)
2000 USS Cole attacked, many U.S. Navy sailors murdered
2000-2003 Intifada against Israel - 100's dead and injured
2000 Manila Bombing, Dec 30,2000
2001 4 Commercial airliners hijacked, 250+ murdered
2001 World Trade Center attacked, 2800+ murdered
2001 Flight 93 murders
2001 Pentagon attacked, 180+ murdered
2002 Reporter Daniel Pearl, kidnapped and murdered
2002 Philippines American missionary, Filipino nurse killed
2002 July 4, El Al attack Los Angeles LAX, several murdered
2002 Bali bombing - 200 dead, 300 injured
2002 Yemen, French Oil Tanker attacked
2002 Marines attacked / murdered in Kuwait
2002 Washington D.C. sniper
2002 Russian Theater attacked, 100+ dead
2002 Nigerian riots against Miss World Pageant, 200 dead, dozens
injured
2002 Mombasa Hotel Attacked, 12 dead, dozens injured
2002 Israeli Boeing 757 attacked by missiles, fortunately no one
injured
2002 August Hotel bombing in Jakarta, Indonesia. 12 dead, dozens
injured.
2003 Rusian concert bombing
2003 Phillipines airport and market bombing
2003 Foiled SAM plot in the USA
2003 UN Baghdad HQ Bombing
Post by cliff
Post by Clough
If the Islamic fighters have no possibility of holding captured
Amerikunts prisoner, they would be justified in putting a bullet
through their skulls.
Clough
It's a bitch to know you and your fellow soldiers will remain in Iraq
until being maimed or killed, with no relief in sight.
Also, that thought of "why am I here" as the soldier lay dying on a
foreign land, unable to be with his family in his last fleeting seconds.
=> Vox Populi ©
2004-04-10 04:01:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by xodus
Post by cliff
Post by Clough
Post by xodus
You stupid international-law-hating hypocrites don't seem to realize
that if the Arabs have abused human rights to the extent that they
have no threats left. They wantonly slaughter civilians, they
slaughtered civilians who were delivering food, now they are
threatening to burn Japanese alive. Tell me again about how much the
Arab barbarians respect the Geneva Convention.
The Amerikunts have slaughtered tens of thousands of innocent
civilians in Iraq. The Amerikunts hold prisoners in a legal limbo in
Cuba. The Amerikunts have no respect for human life or human rights.
Human rights that don't exist for Americans, who are wantonly
slaughtered with no international outcry, and only smug responses from
Euro-bigots.
PARTIAL LIST OF ISLAMIC TERRORIST ACTIVITIES
1968 Robert Kennedy assassinated
1972 Munich Olympic Massacure Sep-5,1972 (Black September)
1976 Entebbe Hostage Crisis, June 27, 1976
1979 Iran Hostage Crisis, Nov. 4, 1979 444 days
1979 Grand Mosque Seizure, Nov 20,1979
1981 Assassination of Egyptian President, Oct 6,1981
1982 Assassination of Lebanese Prime Minister, Sept 14, 1982
1983 Bombing of US Embassy in Beirut6, April 18,1983
1983 Bombing of Maring Barricks, Beruit, Oct 23,1983
1984 Hizballah Restaurant Bombing, April 12,1984
1985 Egyptian Airliner Hijacking, Nov 23,1985
1985 Rome Airport murders
1985 TWA Flight 847 hijacked, U.S. Navy diver murdered
1985 Achille Lauro hijacking, Homacidal maniac lived in saddams Iraq
1986 Aircraft Bombing in Greece, March 30, 1986
1988 Pan Am 747 Flight 103 Bombing, Lockerbie, 100's murdered
1988 Berlin Discoteque Bombing, Dec 21,1988
1992 Bombing in Israeli Embassy in Argentina, March 17,1992
1993 Attempted Assassination of Pres. Bush Sr., April 14,1993
1993 First World Trade Center bombing, February 26th, 7 Killed,
Hundreds injured, Billions
1994 Air France Hijacking, Dec 24,1994
1995 Attack on US Diplomats in Pakistan, Mar 8,1995
1995 Saudi Military Installation Attack, Nov 13, 1995
1995 Kashmiri Hostage taking, July 4,1995
1996 Khobar Towers attack
1996 Sudanese Missionarys Kidnapping, Aug 17,1996
1996 Paris Subway Explosion, Dec 3,1996
1997 Israeli Shopping Mall Bombing, Sept 4, 1997
1997 Yemeni Kidnappings, Oct 30,1997
1998 Somali Hostage taking crisis, April 15,1998
1998 U.S. Embassy Bombing in Peru, Jan 15, 1998
1998 U.S. Kenya Embassy blown up, 100's murdered
1998 U.S. Tanzania Embassy blown up, 100's murdered
1999 Plot to blow up Space Needle (thwarted)
2000 USS Cole attacked, many U.S. Navy sailors murdered
2000-2003 Intifada against Israel - 100's dead and injured
2000 Manila Bombing, Dec 30,2000
2001 4 Commercial airliners hijacked, 250+ murdered
2001 World Trade Center attacked, 2800+ murdered
2001 Flight 93 murders
2001 Pentagon attacked, 180+ murdered
2002 Reporter Daniel Pearl, kidnapped and murdered
2002 Philippines American missionary, Filipino nurse killed
2002 July 4, El Al attack Los Angeles LAX, several murdered
2002 Bali bombing - 200 dead, 300 injured
2002 Yemen, French Oil Tanker attacked
2002 Marines attacked / murdered in Kuwait
2002 Washington D.C. sniper
2002 Russian Theater attacked, 100+ dead
2002 Nigerian riots against Miss World Pageant, 200 dead, dozens
injured
2002 Mombasa Hotel Attacked, 12 dead, dozens injured
2002 Israeli Boeing 757 attacked by missiles, fortunately no one
injured
2002 August Hotel bombing in Jakarta, Indonesia. 12 dead, dozens
injured.
2003 Rusian concert bombing
2003 Phillipines airport and market bombing
2003 Foiled SAM plot in the USA
2003 UN Baghdad HQ Bombing
So go ahead and add up all your so-called "anti-American" terror,
much of which was simple retaliation, but for the sake of argument,
add all the deaths up to a number certain and let me know if
it is equal to or exceeds the total below ...


US involvement in Foreign assassinations or attempts since 1960
(in spite of 1976 U.S. presidential decree outlawing same)

1960 - General Abdul Karim Kassem, leader of Iraq
1961 - Francois Duvalier, leader of Haiti
1961 - Patrice Lumumba, Prime Minister of the Congo
1961 - General Rafael Trujillo, leader of Dominican Republic
1963 - Ngo Dinh Diem, President of South Vietnam
1960s - Fidel Castro, President of Cuba , numerous attempts
1960s - Raul Castro, brother of Fidel.
1965 - Francisco Caamano, Opposition leader, Dominican Republic
1965-6 - Charles de Gaulle, President of France
1967 - Ernesto Che Guevara, Cuban leader
1970 - Salvador Allende, President of Chile
1970 - General Rene Schneider, Commander of Chilean Army
1970s, 81 - General Omar Torrijos, leader of Panama
1972 - General Manuel Noriega, chief of Panama Intelligence
1975 - Mobutu Sese Seko, President of Zaire
1976 - Michael Manley, Prime Minister of Jamaica
1980-86 - Moammar Qaddafi, leader of Libya, numerous attempts
1982 - Ayatollah Khomeine, leader of Iran
1983 - General Ahmed Dlimi, Army commander of Morocco
1983 - Miguel d'Escoto, Foreign Minister of Nicaragua
1984 - All nine leaders of the Nicaraguan National Directorate
1985 - Sheikh Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah, Lebanon Shiite leader
1991 - Saddam Hussein, leader of Iraq
1998 - Osama bin Laden, former US supported "freedom fighter".
1999 - Slobodan Mlosevic, President of Yugoslavia
2001 - Osama bin Laden, al Qaida leader
2001 - Mullah Omar, religious leader of Taliban
2003 - Saddam Hussein and Family, Leader of Iraq


"Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just"
- Thomas Jefferson Notes from Virginia

1948 - PRESENT
AMERICAN/ISRAELI STATE TERRORISM OF THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE
Estimated civilian deaths: 100,000 Palestinian people
From the very beginning of the Zionist State of Israel in 1948, One of the
earliest and most notorious incidents of Israeli terrorism was the Deir
Yassin massacre in April, 1948. 250 Palestinian men, women and children were
murdered in cold blood by Menachem Begin's Zionist "Irgun" group as it went
from house to house seeking to drive all Palestinians out of their ancient
homeland. It hasn't gotten any better since then.
Besides murdering women and children, Israelis routinely torture Palestinian
prisoners in jail. And almost all of it has been kept hidden by the
mainstream American mass-media for 55 years.
Just to give you another example of who the Israelis really are: in 1946,
Menachem Begin's terrorist organization blew up the King David Hotel in
Jerusalem, murdering British nurses, in order to drive the British out of
Palestine. Israeli society later rewarded Menachem Begin by electing him
Prime Minister.
The United States government gives billions of your tax dollars to the
Israelis every year. And the U.S. government never pays people to do things
it doesn't want done. Israeli state terrorism is essentially American state
terrorism.

1953 - PRESENT
AMERICAN-BACKED GENOCIDE OF THE GUATEMALAN PEOPLE
Estimated civilian deaths: over 200,000 people
From Rogue State: A Guide to the World's Only Superpower
A CIA-organized coup overthrew the democratically-elected and progressive
government of Jacobo Arbenz, initiating 40 years of military-government
death squads, torture, disappearances, mass executions and unimaginable
cruelty, totaling more than 200,000 victims - indisputably one of the most
inhumane chapters of the 20th century.
The justification for the coup that has been put forth over the years is
that Guatemala had been on the verge of the proverbial Soviet takeover. In
actuality, the Russians had so little interest in the country that it didn't
even maintain diplomatic relations. The real problem was that Arbenz had
taken over some of the uncultivated land of the US firm, United Fruit
Company [Chiquita bananas], which had extremely close ties to the American
power elite.
Moreover, in the eyes of Washington, there was the danger of Guatemala's
social-democracy model spreading to other countries in Latin America.
Despite a 1996 "peace" accord between the government and rebels, respect for
human rights remains as only a concept in Guatemala; death squads continue
to operate with a significant measure of impunity against union activists
and other dissidents; torture still rears its ugly head; the lower classes
are as wretched as ever; the military endures as a formidable institution;
the US continues to arm and train the Guatemalan military and carry out
exercises with it; and key provisions of the peace accord concerning
military reform have not been carried out.

1955 - 1973
AMERICAN GENOCIDE OF THE CAMBODIAN PEOPLE
Estimated total civilian deaths: 1,000,000 - 2,000,000 people
Prince Sihanouk was yet another leader who did not fancy being an American
client. After many years of hostility toward his regime, including
assassination plots and the infamous Nixon/Kissinger secret "carpet
bombings" of 1969-70, Washington finally overthrew Sihanouk in a coup in
1970. This was all that was needed to impel Pol Pot and his Khmer Rouge
forces to enter the fray. Five years later, they took power. But the years
of American bombing had caused Cambodia's traditional economy to vanish. The
old Cambodia had been destroyed forever.
Incredibly, the Khmer Rouge were to inflict even greater misery upon this
unhappy land. And to multiply the irony, the United States supported Pol Pot
and the Khmer Rouge after their subsequent defeat by the Vietnamese.

1957 - 1973
AMERICAN GENOCIDE OF THE LAOTIAN PEOPLE
Estimated total civilian deaths: over 500,000 people
The Laotian left, led by the Pathet Lao, tried to effect social change
peacefully, making significant electoral gains and taking part in coalition
governments. But the United States would have none of that.
The CIA and the State Department, through force, bribery and other
pressures, engineered coups in 1958, 1959 and 1960. Eventually, the only
option left for the Pathet Lao was armed force.
The CIA created its famous "Arme Clandestine" - totaling 30,000, from every
corner of Asia - to do battle, while the US Air Force, between 1965 and
1973, rained down more than two million tons of bombs upon the people of
Laos, many of whom were forced to live in caves for years in a desperate
attempt to escape the monsters falling from the sky.
After hundreds of thousands had been killed, many more maimed, and countless
bombed villages with hardly stone standing upon stone, the Pathet Lao took
control of the country, following on the heels of events in Vietnam.

MID-1950S, 1970-71
AMERICAN ASSASSINATION ATTEMPTS ON THE ELECTED LEADER OF COSTA RICA
From Rogue State
To liberal American political leaders, President Jose Figueres was the
quintessential "liberal democrat", the kind of statesman they liked to
think, and liked the world to think, was the natural partner of US foreign
policy rather than the military dictators who somehow kept popping up as
allies.
Yet the United States tried to overthrow Figueres (in the 1950s, and perhaps
also in the 1970s, when he was again president), and tried to assassinate
him twice. The reasons? Figueres was not tough enough on the left, led Costa
Rica to become the first country in Central America to establish diplomatic
relations with the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe, and on occasion
questioned American foreign policy, like the Bay of Pigs invasion.

1959 - PRESENT
AMERICAN SUBVERSION AND STATE TERRORISM OF THE CUBAN PEOPLE
From Killing Hope
Fidel Castro came to power at the beginning of 1959. A U.S. National
Security Council meeting of March 10, 1959 included on its agenda the
feasibility of bringing "another government to power in Cuba." There
followed 40 years of terrorist attacks, bombings, full-scale military
invasion, sanctions, embargoes, isolation, assassinations...Cuba had carried
out The Unforgivable Revolution, a very serious threat of setting a "good
example" in Latin America.
The saddest part of this is that the world will never know what kind of
society Cuba could have produced if left alone, if not constantly under the
gun and the threat of invasion, if allowed to relax its control at home. The
idealism, the vision, the talent were all there. But we'll never know. And
that of course was the idea.

1960 - PRESENT
AMERICAN ASSASSINATION OF PATRICE LUMUMBA AND SUPPORT OF STATE TERRORISM OF
THE PEOPLE OF THE CONGO/ZAIRE
From Killing Hope: U.S. Military and CIA Interventions Since WWII
In June 1960, Patrice Lumumba became the Congo's first prime minister after
independence from Belgium. But Belgium retained its vast mineral wealth in
Katanga province, prominent Eisenhower administration officials had
financial ties to the same wealth, and Lumumba, at Independence Day
ceremonies before a host of foreign dignitaries, called for the nation's
economic as well as its political liberation, and recounted a list of
injustices against the natives by the white owners of the country. The man
was obviously a "Communist." The poor man was obviously doomed.
Eleven days later, Katanga province seceded, in September, Lumumba was
dismissed by the president at the instigation of the United States, and in
January 1961 he was assassinated at the express request of [President]
Dwight Eisenhower. There followed several years of civil conflict and chaos
and the rise to power of Mobutu Sese Seko, a man not a stranger to the CIA.
Mobutu went on to rule the country for more than 30 years, with a level of
corruption and cruelty that shocked even his CIA handlers. The Zairian
people lived in abject poverty despite the plentiful natural wealth, while
Mobutu became a multibillionaire.

1960S - PRESENT
AMERICAN SUPPORT FOR COLOMBIAN STATE TERRORISM OF THE COLOMBIAN PEOPLE
Estimated civilian deaths: over 67,000 people
Under the guise of aid for "counternarcotics" operations, the U.S. Corporate
Mafia Government is supplying weapons, training, troops and $1.3 billion of
American taxpayers' money to its murderous apprentices in the Colombian
military. The real purpose of all this aid is to support the government's
massive political oppression of the Colombian people. It's Vietnam all over
again.
Colombia is the most violent country in the world. The vast majority of the
terror is committed by the U.S.-supported military and right-wing
paramilitary forces - who are heavily involved in cocaine production and
smuggling. They have tortured and murdered tens of thousands of people in
trade unions and left-wing movements, including many human rights activists
and grassroots organizers.

1963
AMERICAN/BRITISH ASSASSINATION OF THE LEADER OF IRAQ
In July 1958, Gen. Abdul Karim Kassem overthrew the monarchy and established
a republic. Though somewhat of a reformist, he was by no means any kind of
radical. His action, however, awakened revolutionary fervor in the masses
and increased the influence of the Iraqi Communist Party.
By April of the following year, CIA Director Allen Dulles, with his
customary hyperbole, was telling Congress that the Iraqi Communists were
close to a "complete takeover" and the situation in that country was "the
most dangerous in the world today." In actuality, Kassem aimed at being a
neutralist in the Cold War and pursued rather inconsistent policies toward
the Iraqi Communists, never allowing them formal representation in his
cabinet, nor even full legality, though they strongly desired both. He tried
to maintain power by playing the Communists off against other ideological
groups.
A secret plan for a joint US-Turkish invasion of the country was drafted by
the United States Joint Chiefs of Staff shortly after the 1958 coup.
Reportedly, only Soviet threats to intercede on Iraq's side forced
Washington to hold back. But in 1960, the United States began to fund the
Kurdish guerrillas in Iraq who were fighting for a measure of autonomy and
the CIA undertook an assassination attempt against Kassem, which was
unsuccessful.
The Iraqi leader made himself even more of a marked man when, in that same
year, he began to help create the Organization of Petroleum Exporting
Countries (OPEC), which challenged the stranglehold Western oil companies
had on the marketing of Arab oil; and in 1962 he created a national oil
company to exploit the nation's oil.
In February 1963, Kassem told the French daily, Le Monde, that he had
received a note from Washington - "in terms scarcely veiled, calling upon me
to change my attitude, under threat of sanctions against Iraq... All our
trouble with the imperialists [the US and the UK] began the day we claimed
our legitimate rights to Kuwait." (Kuwait was a key element in US and UK
hegemonic designs over mid-east oil.)
A few days after Kassem's remarks were published, he was overthrown in a
coup and summarily executed; thousands of communists were killed.
The State Department soon informed the press that it was pleased that the
new regime would respect international agreements and was not interested in
nationalizing the giant Iraq Petroleum Co., of which the US was a major
owner. The new government, at least for the time being, also cooled its
claim to Kuwait.
Papers of the British cabinet of 1963, later declassified, disclose that the
coup had been backed by the British and the CIA.

1963 - 1966
AMERICAN SUBVERSION AND TYRANNY IN THE DOMINICAN REPUBLIC
From Killing Hope
In February 1963, Juan Bosch took office as the first democratically elected
president of the Dominican Republic since 1924. Here at last was John F.
Kennedy's liberal anti-Communist, to counter the charge that the U.S.
supported only military dictatorships. Bosch's government was to be the long
sought "showcase of democracy" that would put the lie to Fidel Castro. He
was given the grand treatment in Washington shortly before he took office.
Bosch was true to his beliefs. He called for land reform, low-rent housing,
modest nationalization of business, and foreign investment provided it was
not excessively exploitative of the country and other policies making up the
program of any liberal Third World leader serious about social change. He
was likewise serious about civil liberties: Communists, or those labeled as
such, were not to be persecuted unless they actually violated the law.
A number of American officials and congresspeople expressed their discomfort
with Bosch's plans, as well as his stance of independence from the United
States. Land reform and nationalization are always touchy issues in
Washington, the stuff that "creeping socialism" is made of. In several
quarters of the U.S. press Bosch was red-baited.
In September, the military boots marched. Bosch was out. The United States,
which could discourage a military coup in Latin America with a frown, did
nothing.
Nineteen months later, a revolt broke out which promised to put the exiled
Bosch back into power. The United States sent 23,000 troops to help crush
it.

1964 - 1974
AMERICAN-BACKED SUBVERSION, MASS-MURDER, TORTURE AND OVERTHROW OF DEMOCRACY
IN GREECE
Estimated civilian deaths: over 10,000 people
From Killing Hope
The military coup took place in April 1967, just two days before the
campaign for national elections was to begin, elections which appeared
certain to bring the veteran liberal leader George Papandreou back as prime
minister. Papandreou had been elected in February 1964 with the only
outright majority in the history of modern Greek elections. The successful
machinations to unseat him had begun immediately, a joint effort of the
Royal Court, the Greek military, and the American military and CIA stationed
in Greece.
The 1967 coup was followed immediately by the traditional martial law,
censorship, arrests, beatings, torture, and killings, the victims totaling
some 8,000 in the first month. This was accompanied by the equally
traditional declaration that this was all being done to save the nation from
a "Communist takeover." Corrupting and subversive influences in Greek life
were to be removed. Among these were miniskirts, long hair, and foreign
newspapers; church attendance for the young would be compulsory.
It was torture, however, which most indelibly marked the seven-year Greek
nightmare. James Becket, an American attorney sent to Greece by Amnesty
International, wrote in December 1969 that "a conservative estimate would
place at not less than two thousand" the number of people tortured, usually
in the most gruesome of ways, often with equipment supplied by the United
States.
Becket reported the following: Hundreds of prisoners have listened to the
little speech given by Inspector Basil Lambrou, who sits behind his desk
which displays the red, white, and blue clasped-hand symbol of American aid.
He tries to show the prisoner the absolute futility of resistance:
"You make yourself ridiculous by thinking you can do anything. The world is
divided in two. There are the communists on that side and on this side the
free world. The Russians and the Americans, no one else. What are we?
Americans. Behind me there is the government, behind the government is NATO,
behind NATO is the U.S. You can't fight us, we are Americans."
George Papandreou was not any kind of radical. He was a liberal
anti-Communist type. But his son Andreas, the heir-apparent, while only a
little to the left of his father had not disguised his wish to take Greece
out of the Cold War, and had questioned remaining in NATO, or at least as a
satellite of the United States.

1964 - 1973
AMERICAN-BACKED OVERTHROW OF THE DEMOCRATIC GOVERNMENT OF CHILE
Estimated civilian deaths: over 5000 people from the subsequent Pinochet
terror campaign; at least 1000 people missing and presumed dead
From Killing Hope
[Democratic Marxist President] Salvador Allende was the worst possible
scenario for a Washington imperialist, [who] could imagine only one thing
worse than a Marxist in power - an elected Marxist in power, who honored the
constitution, and became increasingly popular. This shook the very
foundation stones on which the anti-Communist tower was built: the doctrine,
painstakingly cultivated for decades, that "communists" can take power only
through force and deception, that they can retain that power only through
terrorizing and brainwashing the population.
After sabotaging Allende's electoral endeavor in 1964, and failing to do so
in 1970, despite their best efforts, the CIA and the rest of the American
foreign policy machine left no stone unturned in their attempt to
destabilize the Allende government over the next three years, paying
particular attention to building up military hostility. Finally, in
September 1973, the military overthrew the government, Allende dying in the
process.
They closed the country to the outside world for a week, while the tanks
rolled and the soldiers broke down doors; the stadiums rang with the sounds
of execution and the bodies piled up along the streets and floated in the
river; the torture centers opened for business; the subversive books were
thrown into bonfires; soldiers slit the trouser legs of women, shouting that
"In Chile women wear dresses!"; the poor returned to their natural state;
and the men of the world in Washington and in the halls of international
finance opened up their check-books. In the end, more than 3,000 had been
executed, thousands more tortured or disappeared.
(End of Killing Hope excerpt)
In the bloody coup of September 11, 1973, Henry Kissinger and the CIA helped
General Augusto Pinochet overthrow the democratically-elected leftist
government of President Salvador Allende. The Fascist puppet-regime of
Augusto Pinochet then embarked on a 17-year terror campaign against the
people of Chile, which included mass arrests and executions, death squads,
torture and disappearances. Many of the victims were fingered as "radicals"
by lists provided by the CIA.
Santiago's national stadium was used as a mass execution site. Robert
Saldias, the first army officer to come forward publicly without concealing
his identity, said prisoners entering the stadium were identified by yellow,
black, and red discs. "Whoever received a red disc had no chance," Saldias
said.
Many of the professional torturers and assassins in the Chilean military
(and in every other Fascist country of Central and South America) were
trained at the School of the Americas, in Fort Benning, Georgia.
Under Pinochet, Chile also participated in "Operation Condor," a joint
collaboration between the U.S.-backed dictatorships of Chile, Argentina,
Paraguay, Uruguay and Brazil to hunt down and murder exiled opponents of
those regimes. Successful hits included the 1976 car-bomb explosion in
Washington D.C., which killed Allende's exiled foreign minister Orlando
Letelier, and his aide, American Ronnie Moffitt.
"I don't see why we need to stand by and watch a country go communist
because of the irresponsibility of its own people."
- Henry Kissinger, 1970
referring to Chilean voters

1965 - 1973
AMERICAN TYRANNY AND TERRORIZATION OF THE PEOPLE OF THAILAND
While using the country to facilitate its daily bombings of Vietnam and
Laos, the US military took the time to try to suppress insurgents who were
fighting for economic reform, an end to police repression and in opposition
to the mammoth US military presence, with its huge airbases, piers,
barracks, road building and other major projects, which appeared to be
taking the country apart and taking it over.
Eventually, the American military personnel count in Thailand reached
40,000, with those engaged in the civil conflict - including 365 Green Beret
forces - officially designated as "advisers", as they were in Vietnam.
To fight the guerillas, the US financed, armed, equipped and trained police
and military units in counter-insurgency, significantly increasing their
numbers; transported government forces by helicopter to combat areas; were
present in the field as well, as battalion advisers and sometimes
accompanied Thai soldiers on anti-guerrilla sweeps.
In addition, the Americans instituted considerable propaganda and
psychological warfare activities, and actually encouraged the Thai
government to adopt a more forceful response. However, the conflict in
Thailand, and the US role, never approached the dimensions of Vietnam.
In 1966, the Washington Post reported that "In the view of some observers,
continued dictatorship in Thailand suits the United States, since it assures
a continuation of American bases in the country and that, as a US official
put it bluntly, 'is our real interest in this place.'"


1975 - 1999
AMERICAN-BACKED GENOCIDE OF THE PEOPLE OF EAST TIMOR
Estimated civilian deaths: over 200,000 people
From Killing Hope
In December 1975, Indonesia invaded East Timor, which lies at the eastern
end of the Indonesian archipelago, and which had proclaimed its independence
after Portugal had relinquished control of it. The invasion was launched the
day after U.S. President Gerald Ford and Secretary of State Henry Kissinger
had left Indonesia after giving Suharto permission to use American arms,
which, under U.S. law, could not be used for aggression. Indonesia was
Washington's most valuable tool in Southeast Asia.
Amnesty International estimated that by 1989, Indonesian troops, with the
aim of forcibly annexing East Timor, had killed 200,000 people out of a
population of between 600,000 and 700,000. The United States consistently
supported Indonesia's claim to East Timor (unlike the UN and the EU), and
downplayed the slaughter to a remarkable degree, at the same time supplying
Indonesia with all the military hardware and training it needed to carry out
the job.
From Derailing Democracy
by Dave McGowan:
The U.S.-backed government of Indonesia invaded East Timor just one day
after a visit by President Gerald Ford and Henry Kissinger. As many as a
third of the tiny island's population were exterminated using American
supplied weaponry.
The Indonesian government, kept propped up with U.S. taxpayers' money,
continues to this day to be one of the worst human rights abusers on the
planet.

1979 - 1992
AMERICAN SUBVERSION IN AFGHANISTAN
Estimated civilian deaths: over 1,000,000 people
From Killing Hope
Everyone knows of the unbelievable repression of women in Afghanistan,
carried out by Islamic fundamentalists, even before the Taliban. But how
many people know that during the late 1970s and most of the 1980s,
Afghanistan had a government committed to bringing the incredibly backward
nation into the 20th century, including giving women equal rights?
What happened, however, is that the United States poured billions of dollars
into waging a terrible war against this government, simply because it was
supported by the Soviet Union. Prior to this, CIA operations had knowingly
increased the probability of a Soviet intervention, which is what occurred.
In the end, the United States won, and the women, and the rest of
Afghanistan, lost. More than a million dead, three million disabled, five
million refugees, in total about half the population.
See also:

Imperial Hypocrisy: American/British state terrorism of the Afghan Peoples,
2001-2002

The Truth About American Terrorism of the Afghan Peoples

1981 - 1989
AMERICAN TERROR-CAMPAIGN AGAINST THE LIBYAN PEOPLE;
NUMEROUS CIA ASSASSINATION ATTEMPTS ON MUAMMAR QADHAFI
Estimated civilian deaths from the April 1986 attack: over 100 people,
including Qadhafi's two-year-old daughter
From Rogue State
The official reason for the Reagan administration's intense antipathy toward
Moammar Qaddafi was that he supported terrorism. In actuality, the Libyan
leader's crime was not his support for terrorist groups per se, but that he
was supporting the wrong terrorist groups; i.e., Qaddafi was not supporting
the same terrorists that Reagan was, such as the Nicaraguan Contras, UNITA
in Angola, Cuban exiles in Miami, the governments of El Salvador and
Guatemala and the U.S. military in Grenada. The one band of terrorists the
two men supported in common was the Moujahedeen in Afghanistan.
On top of this, Washington has a deep-seated antipathy toward Middle east
oil-producing countries that it can't exert proper control over. Qaddafi was
uppity, and he had overthrown a rich ruling clique and instituted a welfare
state. He and his country would have to be put in their place. Five years
later, the United States bombed one of Qaddafi's residences, killing scores
of people. There were other attempts to assassinate the man, operations to
overthrow him, economic sanctions, and a major disinformation campaign
reporting one piece of nonsense after another, including conspicuous
exaggerations of his support for terrorism, and shifting the blame for the
1988 bombing of PanAm 103 to Libya and away from Iran and Syria when the
Gulf War campaign required the support of the latter two countries.
To Washington, Libya was like magnetic north: the finger always pointed
there.
(End of Rogue State excerpt)
On April 15, 1986, 19 warplanes of the U.S. Air Force took off from their
bases in Great Britain and flew to Libya, whereupon the heroic F111 pilots
bombed the private house of Muammar Qadhafi and violently murdered his
little two-year-old daughter.
At least 100 other people - including civilian men, women and children -
were slaughtered as the U.S. Air Force pilots bombed private homes and
mosques all over Tripoli and Benghazi.
They actually managed to hit a military target too, the Al-Azizia barracks,
which was Qadhafi's headquarters. On April 16 the American pilots who
perpetrated these war crimes openly admitted that the purpose of the attack
had been to assassinate Qadhafi.
For years prior to this outrage the U.S. Corporate Mafia Government had been
trying to murder the popular Libyan leader. Navy jets from the U.S. Sixth
Fleet had repeatedly violated Libyan airspace while Navy ships violated
Libyan territorial waters in bullying attempts to provoke a reaction.
The U.S. Navy shot down Libyan planes over Libyan territory, and sank Libyan
Coast Guard boats in Libyan territorial waters. Here are some of the
highlights of this American terror campaign:
· In the summer of 1980 the CIA attempted to shoot down the plane of
Qadhafi as he was on a flight to Eastern Europe. An Italian plane flying
over Ostika was mistakenly shot down instead.
· July 27, 1981 - Newsweek published an article reporting that CIA
Director William Casey had authorized extensive plans to assassinate Qadhafi
and overthrow the popular democratic government of Libya. This classic
American M.O. included a media propaganda campaign and numerous "psy-ops",
or psychological warfare operations, aimed at creating turmoil within Libya.
· August 19, 1981 - Eight American jet fighters attacked two Libyan
air force reconnaissance planes over Libyan territory in the Gulf of Sirte,
shooting them down.
· 1985 - The CIA recruited mercenaries to be trained for several
attempts to assassinate Qadhafi. One of the plans called for sprinkling a
special poison into his food that would weaken his immune system, causing a
gradual death with symptoms that would not be immediately recognized.
· March 25, 1986 - U.S. Navy warplanes from the Sixth Fleet bombed
Libyan civilian targets in the Gulf of Sirte. They attacked a Libyan Coast
Guard boat, murdering the crew of 10 men. The Navy jets also attacked a
larger Libyan Coast Guard ship. 42 men of the crew escaped into the water
and attempted to swim to shore. The U.S. Navy pilots slaughtered them all in
the water.
· April 4, 1986 - While on a victory tour of the aircraft carrier
"Enterprise", stationed off the coast of Oman, Vice President George Bush
characterized the U.S. Sixth Fleet's terror campaign against innocent Libyan
people as "a tough lesson for Qadhafi" which had given him a "nosebleed".
The brainwashed morons of the crew cheered.
Eleven days later, over 100 innocent people lay dead in the cities of
Tripoli and Benghazi - including a little two-year-old girl. Murdered by
these American heros.

1981 - 1990
AMERICAN TERRORISM OF THE NICARAGUAN PEOPLE
Estimated civilian deaths: over 13,000 people
From Derailing Democracy
Following the fall of the Somoza regime, which had been backed for decades
by the U.S., the CIA formed and armed the covert army known as the "Contras"
from the remains of Somoza's National Guard. Assisted by covert U.S. air
power, this proxy army inflicted considerable death and destruction across
the Nicaraguan countryside.
From Killing Hope
When the Sandinistas overthrew the Somoza dictatorship in 1978, it was clear
to Washington that they might well be that long-dreaded beast - "another
Cuba." Under President Carter, attempts to sabotage the revolution took
diplomatic and economic forms. Under Reagan, violence was the method of
choice. For eight terribly long years, the people of Nicaragua were under
attack by Washington's proxy army, the Contras, formed from Somoza's vicious
National Guard and other supporters of the dictator.
It was all-out war, aiming to destroy the progressive social and economic
programs of the government, burning down schools and medical clinics,
raping, torturing, mining harbors, bombing and strafing. These were Ronald
Reagan's "freedom fighters." There would be no revolution in Nicaragua.

From a talk by John Stockwell, 13-year veteran of the CIA and former U.S.
Marine Corps major:
"Systematically, the Contras have been assassinating religious workers,
teachers, health workers, elected officials, government administrators.
Remember the 'Assassination Manual' that surfaced in 1984? It caused such a
stir that President Reagan had to address it himself in the presidential
debates with Walter Mondale. They use terror to traumatize society so that
it cannot function.
"I don't mean to abuse you with verbal violence, but you have to understand
what your Government and its agents are doing.
"They go into villages. They haul out families. With the children forced to
watch, they castrate the father. They peel the skin off his face. They put a
grenade in his mouth, and pull the pin. With the children forced to watch,
they gang-rape the mother, and slash her breasts off. And sometimes, for
variety, they make the parents watch while they do these things to the
children.
"This is nobody's propaganda!
"There have been over a hundred thousand American 'Witnesses for Peace' who'
ve gone down there, and they have filmed and photographed and witnessed
these atrocities immediately after they've happened, and documented thirteen
thousand people killed this way - mostly women and children.
"These are the activities done by the Contras. The Contras are the people
President Reagan called 'freedom fighters.' He said: 'they are the moral
equivalent of our founding fathers.'"

1980 - PRESENT
AMERICAN TERRORISM OF THE EL SALVADORAN PEOPLE
Estimated civilian deaths: over 75,000 people
From Derailing Democracy: The America the Media Don't Want You to See
Massive amounts of arms, training and funding were poured into El Salvador
to prop up the puppet government against a popular uprising. Featured the
covert use of U.S. air power and ground forces, as well as the training, at
the "School of the Americas" [in Ft. Benning, Georgia], of the leaders of
the right-wing death squads which executed thousands of Salvadorans.
Some of the highlights of the death squad activities included the
assassination of Archbishop Oscar Romero, the execution of six Jesuit
priests along with their housekeeper and her daughter, the rape and
execution of four American church women, and the mass execution of some 800
civilians at the village of El Mozote.
From Killing Hope
by William Blum:
El Salvador's dissidents tried to work within the system. But with U.S.
support, the government made that impossible, using repeated electoral fraud
and murdering hundreds of protesters and strikers. In 1980, the dissidents
took to the gun, and civil war.
Officially, the U.S. military presence in El Salvador was limited to an
advisory capacity. In actuality, military and CIA personnel played a more
active role on a continuous basis. About 20 Americans were killed or wounded
in helicopter and plane crashes while flying reconnaissance or other
missions over combat areas, and considerable evidence surfaced of a U.S.
role in the ground fighting as well. The war came to an official end in
1992; 75,000 civilian deaths and the U.S. Treasury depleted by six billion
dollars.
Meaningful social change has been largely thwarted. A handful of the wealthy
still own the country, the poor remain as ever, and dissidents still have to
fear right-wing death squads.

1987 - 1994
AMERICAN-SUPPORTED STATE TERRORISM OF THE HAITIAN PEOPLE
From Killing Hope
The U.S. supported the Duvalier family dictatorship for 30 years, then
opposed the reformist priest, Jean-Bertrand Aristide. Meanwhile, the CIA was
working intimately with death squads, torturers, and drug traffickers.
With this as background, the Clinton White House found itself in the awkward
position of having to pretend - because of all their rhetoric about
"democracy" - that they supported Aristide's return to power in Haiti after
he had been ousted in a 1991 military coup. After delaying his return for
more than two years, Washington finally had its military restore Aristide to
office, but only after obliging the priest to guarantee that he would not
help the poor at the expense of the rich, and that he would stick closely to
free-market economics. This meant that Haiti would continue to be the
assembly plant of the Western Hemisphere, with its workers receiving
literally starvation wages.

1988
U.S. NAVY MASS-MURDER OF CIVILIAN IRANIAN AIRLINE PASSENGERS
Known civilian deaths: 290 people
From the WSWS article:
"Pan Am Flight 103: Trial opens of Libyans accused of Lockerbie bombing"
By Steve James
6 May 2000
www.wsws.org/articles/200...-m06.shtml
On July 3, 1988 the U.S. Navy warship the Vincennes was operating within
Iranian waters, providing military support for Iraq in the ongoing Iran/Iraq
war. During a one-sided battle against a small number of lightly armed
Iranian gunboats, the Vincennes fired two missiles at an [Iranian] Airbus,
which was on a routine civilian flight. All 290 civilians onboard were
killed.
This act of mass murder by the U.S. has never resulted in any court case.
The captain and crew of the Vincennes were militarily decorated. Attempts by
relatives of the victims to bring legal action against the American
government were rejected by the US Supreme Court in 1993. Despite the fact
that the vast majority of victims were Iranian, the US paid $2.9 million in
compensation only to non-Iranian victims of the shooting.
"I will never apologize for the United States of America - I don't care what
the facts are."
- President George Bush, Sr.
referring to the mass-murder
of Iranian civilian people
by the U.S.S. Vincennes

1979 - 1984
AMERICAN SUBVERSION AND INVASION OF TINY GRENADA
Estimated civilian deaths: several hundred people
From Rogue State
How impoverished, small, weak or far away must a country be before it is not
a threat to the U.S. government? In a 1979 coup, Maurice Bishop and his
followers had taken power in this island country of 110 thousand, and though
their actual policies were not as revolutionary as Castro's, Washington was
again driven by its fear of "another Cuba," particularly when public
appearances by the Grenadian leaders in other countries of the region met
with great enthusiasm.
Reagan administration destabilization tactics against the Bishop government
began soon after the coup, featuring outrageous disinformation and
deception. Finally came the invasion in October 1983, which put into power
individuals more beholden to U.S. foreign policy objectives. The U.S.
suffered 135 killed or wounded; there were also some 400 Grenadian
casualties, and 84 Cubans, mainly construction workers. The invasion was
attended by yet more transparent lies, created by Washington to justify its
gross violations of international law.
(Added note: This invasion was not attended, however, by newsreporters. The
1983 invasion of Grenada was the first major American military assault in
which newsreporters were barred from being present. The U.S. government didn
't want the world to witness the great superpower beating up on a tiny
island and murdering its civilian inhabitants.)
From What Uncle Sam Really Wants
by Noam Chomsky:
No country is exempt from this treatment [i.e. American state terrorism], no
matter how unimportant. In fact, it's the weakest, poorest countries that
often arouse the greatest hysteria.
Grenada has a hundred thousand people who produce a little nutmeg, and you
could hardly find it on a map. But when Grenada began to undergo a mild
social revolution, Washington quickly moved to destroy the threat.
There's a reason for that. The weaker and poorer a country is, the more
dangerous it is as an example. If a tiny, poor country like Grenada can
succeed in bringing about a better life for its people, some other place
that has more resources will ask, "why not us?"
From Killing Hope
by William Blum:
At the end of 1984, a questionable election was held which was won by a man
supported by the Reagan administration. One year later, the human rights
organization, Council on Hemispheric Affairs, reported that Grenada's new
U.S.-trained police force and counter-insurgency forces had acquired a
reputation for brutality, arbitrary arrest, and abuse of authority, and were
eroding civil rights.
In April 1989, the government issued a list of more than 80 books which were
prohibited from being imported. Four months later, the prime minister
suspended parliament to forestall a threatened no-confidence vote resulting
from what his critics called "an increasingly authoritarian style."

1989
AMERICAN INVASION OF PANAMA
Estimated civilian deaths: several thousand people
From Rogue State
Less than two weeks after the fall of the Berlin Wall, the United States
showed its joy that a new era of world peace was now possible by invading
Panama, as Washington's mad bombers struck again. On December 20, 1989, a
large tenement barrio in Panama City was wiped out; 15,000 people were left
homeless. Counting several days of ground fighting between U.S. and
Panamanian forces, 500-something natives dead was the official body count -
i.e., what the United States and the new U.S.-installed Panamanian
government admitted to. Other sources, examining more evidence, concluded
that thousands had died. Additionally, some 3,000 Panamanians were wounded,
23 Americans died, 324 were wounded.
Question from reporter: "Was it really worth it to send people to their
death for this? To get Noriega?"
George Bush: "Every human life is precious, and yet I have to answer, yes,
it has been worth it."
Manuel Noriega had been an American ally and informant for years until he
outlived his usefulness. But getting him was hardly a major motive for the
attack. Bush wanted to send a clear message to the people of Nicaragua, who
had an election scheduled in two months, that this might be their fate if
they reelected the Sandinistas. Bush also wanted to flex some military
muscle to illustrate to Congress the need for a large combat-ready force
even after the very recent dissolution of the "Soviet threat." The official
explanation for the American ouster was Noriega's drug trafficking, which
Washington had known about for years and had not been at all bothered by.
And they could easily have gotten their hands on the man without wreaking
such terrible devastation upon the Panamanian people.

1991 - PRESENT
AMERICAN/BRITISH STATE TERRORISM OF THE IRAQI PEOPLE
Estimated total civilian deaths: at least 200,000 people directly from the
1991 terror campaign;
1,000,000 - 2,000,000 people since then from the combined effects of
depleted uranium poisoning, polluted water and sanctions
Like the terrorization of the entire civilian population of Yugoslavia, the
so-called Gulf "War" was in fact a cowardly, high-tech slaughter, a total
mismatch of military power. 177 million pounds of bombs were dropped on the
people of Iraq in the most concentrated aerial bombardment in the history of
the world. Sadistic American forces even slaughtered retreating Iraqi
soldiers as they tried to flee along a highway back to Iraq.
And as with Yugoslavia, the "Desert Storm" terror campaign was directed
primarily against the civilian population, a genocidal six-week assault on
all the civilian people and infrastructure of Iraq. Particularly targeted
were every grain silo and public water-treatment plant in the country. The
assault included the most extensive use in history of depleted uranium
missiles, and the most intensive use of cluster bombs, fuel-air bombs,
napalm, cruise missiles and so-called "smart bombs".
The Dutch Laka Foundation estimates that this particular U.S. terror
campaign left behind 300-800 tons of radioactive waste from the depleted
uranium ammunition all over Kuwait and Iraq - poisoning the air, the land,
the water and the people everywhere.
Afterwards, wherever the depleted uranium firing had been concentrated,
there were cancer epidemics among Iraqi civilians living nearby. In the ten
years since, sanctions, bacteria-laden water and depleted uranium together
have killed somewhere between 1,000,000 and 2,000,000 Iraqi civilians. Most
of the victims were, and are, children.
Since the American terror campaign, thousands of Iraqi babies have been born
with horrible birth defects. This is something that has never before been
seen in Iraq.
More than 120,000 American Gulf War veterans are chronically ill - suffering
from Gulf War Syndrome. A U.S. Department of Veterans study of 251 veterans'
families found that 67% had children with severe illnesses or birth defects.
Even the United Nations estimates that over one million Iraqi civilians,
including 600,000 children below the age of five have died as a result of
diseases from polluted water - and the American sanctions which deny them
the needed medicines.

1992 - PRESENT
AMERICAN/NATO STATE TERRORISM AND SUBVERSION OF THE YUGOSLAVIAN PEOPLES
Estimated civilian deaths: over 3000 people from the 1999 terror-bombing
Weapons of mass-destruction used by U.S.-dominated NATO forces included
cluster bombs, depleted uranium missiles, fuel-air bombs, napalm, cruise
missiles and other so-called "smart bombs".
250,000 people were killed during the U.S./German-sponsored civil war in
Bosnia of 1992-1995, and in Krajina, 1995.
Estimated civilian injuries: 9000+ people from the 1999 American terror
campaign alone. Many people, including children, dismembered and crippled
for life by cluster bombs.
In addition, over 1 million people who now live in Serbia-Yugoslavia are
refugees from Krajina, Bosnia and Kosovo - victims of the
U.S./German-sponsored terror campaigns of the 1990s.
For 78 days and nights in the Spring of 1999, United States Air Force and
Navy pilots rained death indiscriminately upon women and children, old men
and women shopping in marketplaces, passengers in trains, people in cars and
buses, people in schools, patients in hospitals - anyone and everyone -
everywhere in Yugoslavia.
The American terror campaign actually began in 1992 with the American/German
sponsored subversion and breakup of Yugoslavia and subsequent civil war in
Bosnia. It continued with the "ethnic cleansing" of approximately 300,000 to
500,000 Serbians from the Krajina region in 1995. Thousands of Serbian
refugees were murdered as they tried to flee the sadistic, gratuitous
bombing by the American-backed Croatian forces. American terrorism peaked
with the bombing of the entire civilian population and infrastructure of
Yugoslavia in 1999. It has continued to this day with the brutal occupation
of Kosovo.
NATO/KFOR occupation troops have stood idly by, watching sympathetically as
Albanian extremists kidnapped, publicly beat, murdered and tortured Serbs,
Roma and Jews, burning down their houses and dynamiting centuries-old
Christian churches. Over 200,000 non-Albanians were "ethnically cleansed"
from Kosovo with America's total blessing.
As if this weren't appalling enough, a massive sex-slave trade of Eastern
European women and girls has flourished in Kosovo since the American/NATO
occupation began. The women and girls are often beaten, they are forced to
live in poverty and filth, they are raped many times every day, and many are
murdered. The pimps are all Albanian KLA/mafia with a reputation for brutal
violence. The customers are American/NATO occupation troops (ludicrously
called "peacekeepers" by the corporate-owned mass-media) and so-called
"international peace workers".
Ah yes, "humanitarianism" and "democracy". Isn't that what America is all
about?

1993
AMERICAN SLAUGHTER OF PEOPLE IN SOMALIA
Estimated civilian deaths: 10,000 people
From Rogue State
It was supposed to be a mission to help feed the starving masses. Before
long, the U.S. was trying to rearrange the country's political map by
eliminating the dominant warlord, Mohamed Aidid, and his power base. On many
occasions, beginning in June, U.S. helicopters strafed groups of Aidid's
supporters and fired missiles at them. Scores were killed. Then, in October,
a daring attempt by some 120 elite American forces to kidnap two leaders of
Aidid's clan resulted in a horrendous bloody battle. The final tally was
five U.S. helicopters shot down, 18 Americans dead, 73 wounded, 500 to 1000
Somalians killed, many more injured.
It's questionable that getting food to hungry people was as important as the
fact that four American oil giants were holding exploratory rights to large
areas of land and were hoping that U.S. troops would put an end to the chaos
which threatened their highly expensive investments. There was also the
Pentagon's ongoing need to sell itself to those in Congress who were trying
to cut the military budget in the post-Cold War world. "Humanitarian"
actions and (unnecessary) amphibious landings by U.S. Marines on the beach
in the glare of T.V. cameras were thought to be good selling points.
Washington designed the operation in such a way that the show would be run
by the U.S. military and not the United Nations, under whose aegis it
supposedly fell.
In any event, by the time the Marines landed, the worst of the famine was
over. It had peaked months before.
From the International Action Center:
On December 12, 1992, the U.S. sent 28,000 soldiers into Somalia under the
cover of the United Nations Operation in Somalia (UNOSOM) in what they said
was a "humanitarian mission" to bring food to starving people. The invasion
came when a several-year drought that had taken tens of thousands of lives
was actually abating. At the time, the evening news showed images of
thousands of starving Somalis. What people didn't see was U.S. troops - not
delivering food - but instead engaged in daily gun battles and bombing raids
in heavily populated neighborhoods. In ten months, more than 10,000 Somalis
died as the U.S. engaged in aggressive military action against those who
resisted.
Resistance among Somali women, men and even children to the foreign troops
became widespread. The Somali people have a long and proud history of
resistance. They fought for the freedom of their country from Italian,
French and British colonialism - and they resisted the U.S. attempts to
recolonize their country.
In the beginning of the military intervention in 1992, Colin Powell, at the
time the chairman of the Pentagon's Joint Chiefs of Staff, called the
invasion a "paid political advertisement" for the Pentagon at a time (less
than a year after the end of the so-called Cold War) when Congress was under
growing pressure to cut the war budget. Powell opposed calls that money be
used instead for jobs, education, health care, housing and other social
needs, and instead sought to maintain the $300-billion-plus military budget.
In reporting on the U.S./UN Operation in Somalia (UNOSOM), the human rights
organization Africa Rights stated that troops "have engaged in abuses of
human rights, including killing of civilians, physical abuse, theft... Many
UNOSOM soldiers have also displayed unacceptable levels of racism toward
Somalis." These abuses included opening fire with machine guns against
unarmed protesters, firing missiles into residential areas and outright
murder civilians, including many youth. The report states "UNOSOM has become
an army of occupation."

2001 - PRESENT
AMERICAN STATE TERRORISM OF THE AFGHAN PEOPLES
Estimated civilian deaths: 4000-5000 people
With total hypocrisy the United States military terrorized and mass-murdered
thousands of innocent Afghan civilian people, supposedly in reprisal for the
terror attacks of September 11. As they did in Yugoslavia and Iraq, heroic
U.S. Air Force pilots murdered thousands of women and children by bombing
hospitals and schools and private homes. They even bombed an Afghan wedding
party. None of these innocent, civilian victims had anything whatsoever to
do with the September 11 attacks.
Obviously the so-called "war on terrorism" is a total sham. The real reason
the U.S. is in Afghanistan is to get control of Caspian Sea oil. To get the
oil out of the Caspian basin they have to run pipelines through Afghanistan.
Most unfortunate for the hapless Afghan people.

2003
AMERICAN/BRITISH INVASION AND STATE TERRORISM OF THE IRAQI PEOPLE
Estimated civilian deaths: tens of thousands of people
In March 2003 the literally satanic U.S. military/government launched a
murderous invasion of Iraq. Disregarding America's widely scorned state
propaganda, there are three true reasons for the invasion and occupation: 1)
taking control of Iraq's oil; 2) forcing Iraq to return to using the dollar
instead of the euro for oil payments; 3) eliminating the largest,
independent Arab power on behalf of the terrorist, racist State of Israel.
Along with its British puppets, the American military destroyed the
hopelessly outgunned Iraqi military, once again slaughtering thousands of
Iraqi civilian men, women and children in the process. The racist invaders
now occupy the country and are continuing the mass murder and terrorization
of its people.


So, what's the frequency Kenneth????
Post by xodus
Post by cliff
Post by Clough
If the Islamic fighters have no possibility of holding captured
Amerikunts prisoner, they would be justified in putting a bullet
through their skulls.
Clough
It's a bitch to know you and your fellow soldiers will remain in Iraq
until being maimed or killed, with no relief in sight.
Also, that thought of "why am I here" as the soldier lay dying on a
foreign land, unable to be with his family in his last fleeting seconds.
--
"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our
number one priority and we will not rest until we find him."
~ George Bush Jr. 2001-09-13

"I don't know where he (bin Laden) is. I have no idea and I really
don't care.
It's not that important. It's not our priority."
~ George Bush Jr. 2002-03-13
xodus
2004-04-10 11:10:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by => Vox Populi ©
Post by xodus
Post by Clough
Post by xodus
You stupid international-law-hating hypocrites don't seem to realize
that if the Arabs have abused human rights to the extent that they
have no threats left. They wantonly slaughter civilians, they
slaughtered civilians who were delivering food, now they are
threatening to burn Japanese alive. Tell me again about how much the
Arab barbarians respect the Geneva Convention.
The Amerikunts have slaughtered tens of thousands of innocent
civilians in Iraq. The Amerikunts hold prisoners in a legal limbo in
Cuba. The Amerikunts have no respect for human life or human rights.
Human rights that don't exist for Americans, who are wantonly
slaughtered with no international outcry, and only smug responses from
Euro-bigots.
PARTIAL LIST OF ISLAMIC TERRORIST ACTIVITIES
1968 Robert Kennedy assassinated
1972 Munich Olympic Massacure Sep-5,1972 (Black September)
1976 Entebbe Hostage Crisis, June 27, 1976
1979 Iran Hostage Crisis, Nov. 4, 1979 444 days
1979 Grand Mosque Seizure, Nov 20,1979
1981 Assassination of Egyptian President, Oct 6,1981
1982 Assassination of Lebanese Prime Minister, Sept 14, 1982
1983 Bombing of US Embassy in Beirut6, April 18,1983
1983 Bombing of Maring Barricks, Beruit, Oct 23,1983
1984 Hizballah Restaurant Bombing, April 12,1984
1985 Egyptian Airliner Hijacking, Nov 23,1985
1985 Rome Airport murders
1985 TWA Flight 847 hijacked, U.S. Navy diver murdered
1985 Achille Lauro hijacking, Homacidal maniac lived in saddams Iraq
1986 Aircraft Bombing in Greece, March 30, 1986
1988 Pan Am 747 Flight 103 Bombing, Lockerbie, 100's murdered
1988 Berlin Discoteque Bombing, Dec 21,1988
1992 Bombing in Israeli Embassy in Argentina, March 17,1992
1993 Attempted Assassination of Pres. Bush Sr., April 14,1993
1993 First World Trade Center bombing, February 26th, 7 Killed,
Hundreds injured, Billions
1994 Air France Hijacking, Dec 24,1994
1995 Attack on US Diplomats in Pakistan, Mar 8,1995
1995 Saudi Military Installation Attack, Nov 13, 1995
1995 Kashmiri Hostage taking, July 4,1995
1996 Khobar Towers attack
1996 Sudanese Missionarys Kidnapping, Aug 17,1996
1996 Paris Subway Explosion, Dec 3,1996
1997 Israeli Shopping Mall Bombing, Sept 4, 1997
1997 Yemeni Kidnappings, Oct 30,1997
1998 Somali Hostage taking crisis, April 15,1998
1998 U.S. Embassy Bombing in Peru, Jan 15, 1998
1998 U.S. Kenya Embassy blown up, 100's murdered
1998 U.S. Tanzania Embassy blown up, 100's murdered
1999 Plot to blow up Space Needle (thwarted)
2000 USS Cole attacked, many U.S. Navy sailors murdered
2000-2003 Intifada against Israel - 100's dead and injured
2000 Manila Bombing, Dec 30,2000
2001 4 Commercial airliners hijacked, 250+ murdered
2001 World Trade Center attacked, 2800+ murdered
2001 Flight 93 murders
2001 Pentagon attacked, 180+ murdered
2002 Reporter Daniel Pearl, kidnapped and murdered
2002 Philippines American missionary, Filipino nurse killed
2002 July 4, El Al attack Los Angeles LAX, several murdered
2002 Bali bombing - 200 dead, 300 injured
2002 Yemen, French Oil Tanker attacked
2002 Marines attacked / murdered in Kuwait
2002 Washington D.C. sniper
2002 Russian Theater attacked, 100+ dead
2002 Nigerian riots against Miss World Pageant, 200 dead, dozens
injured
2002 Mombasa Hotel Attacked, 12 dead, dozens injured
2002 Israeli Boeing 757 attacked by missiles, fortunately no one
injured
2002 August Hotel bombing in Jakarta, Indonesia. 12 dead, dozens
injured.
2003 Rusian concert bombing
2003 Phillipines airport and market bombing
2003 Foiled SAM plot in the USA
2003 UN Baghdad HQ Bombing
So go ahead and add up all your so-called "anti-American" terror,
much of which was simple retaliation,
Retaliation? Okay, then retaliation is okay? Understandable?
Justifiable?
Please answer.
Post by => Vox Populi ©
but for the sake of argument,
add all the deaths up to a number certain and let me know if
it is equal to or exceeds the total below ...
US involvement in Foreign assassinations or attempts since 1960
(in spite of 1976 U.S. presidential decree outlawing same)
1960 - General Abdul Karim Kassem, leader of Iraq
French puppet
Massmurder
Killed by French-supported fascists
Post by => Vox Populi ©
1961 - Francois Duvalier, leader of Haiti
Massmurderer
Supported by Europe
Post by => Vox Populi ©
1961 - Patrice Lumumba, Prime Minister of the Congo
Genocidal dictator
Friends with French and Germans
Post by => Vox Populi ©
1961 - General Rafael Trujillo, leader of Dominican Republic
False
Post by => Vox Populi ©
1963 - Ngo Dinh Diem, President of South Vietnam
Killed Americans
Post by => Vox Populi ©
1960s - Fidel Castro, President of Cuba , numerous attempts
Killed thousands of Americans
Post by => Vox Populi ©
1960s - Raul Castro, brother of Fidel.
False
Good friends with Europe
Post by => Vox Populi ©
1965 - Francisco Caamano, Opposition leader, Dominican Republic
False
Post by => Vox Populi ©
1965-6 - Charles de Gaulle, President of France
FALSE! American ally
Post by => Vox Populi ©
1967 - Ernesto Che Guevara, Cuban leader
Slaughtered Americans and allies of America
Post by => Vox Populi ©
1970 - Salvador Allende, President of Chile
Dictator
Best friends with Spain
Post by => Vox Populi ©
1970 - General Rene Schneider, Commander of Chilean Army
Dictator
Post by => Vox Populi ©
1970s, 81 - General Omar Torrijos, leader of Panama
Massmurderer, friends of Brits
Post by => Vox Populi ©
1972 - General Manuel Noriega, chief of Panama Intelligence
Drugs that killed Americans
Post by => Vox Populi ©
1975 - Mobutu Sese Seko, President of Zaire
Killed Americans
Post by => Vox Populi ©
1976 - Michael Manley, Prime Minister of Jamaica
Killed Americans
Post by => Vox Populi ©
1980-86 - Moammar Qaddafi, leader of Libya, numerous attempts
Blew up airplanes and discos killing hundreds of Americans
Post by => Vox Populi ©
1982 - Ayatollah Khomeine, leader of Iran
Took US hostages, 400 people for over a year
Killed 500 in terror attacks on Americans
Post by => Vox Populi ©
1983 - General Ahmed Dlimi, Army commander of Morocco
Massmurderer, friends of Italy
Post by => Vox Populi ©
1983 - Miguel d'Escoto, Foreign Minister of Nicaragua
Ally of Spain
Atrocities
Thug
Dictator
Post by => Vox Populi ©
1984 - All nine leaders of the Nicaraguan National Directorate
Spanish-puppet, torture, disappearance
Post by => Vox Populi ©
1991 - Saddam Hussein, leader of Iraq
Exterminator, genocide, poison gas, friends of France, Chirac,
Germany, Russia
Post by => Vox Populi ©
1998 - Osama bin Laden, former US supported "freedom fighter".
Not supported by the US. The US supported the Afghans, not "Arab
Afghans". People like Masood who was later murdered by Bin Laden.
Post by => Vox Populi ©
1999 - Slobodan Mlosevic, President of Yugoslavia
At the Hague in the UN
Former communsit enemy of the US, commited genocide against Bosnians
Post by => Vox Populi ©
2001 - Osama bin Laden, al Qaida leader
Murdered 3000 of American civilians
Post by => Vox Populi ©
2001 - Mullah Omar, religious leader of Taliban
Murdered millions of Afghans
Post by => Vox Populi ©
2003 - Saddam Hussein and Family, Leader of Iraq
Family? You mean his sons who were fighting the US. ASAIK, his
daughters are safe in Jordan.
Post by => Vox Populi ©
"Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just"
- Thomas Jefferson Notes from Virginia
1948 - PRESENT
AMERICAN/ISRAELI STATE TERRORISM OF THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE
The UN created state of Israel. Israel was created by Britain and UN



The US never occupied or was involved in anyway with Palestine or
Israel until 1970s
Post by => Vox Populi ©
Estimated civilian deaths: 100,000 Palestinian people
From the very beginning of the Zionist State of Israel in 1948, One of the
earliest and most notorious incidents of Israeli terrorism was the Deir
Yassin massacre in April, 1948. 250 Palestinian men, women and children were
murdered in cold blood by Menachem Begin's Zionist "Irgun" group as it went
from house to house seeking to drive all Palestinians out of their ancient
homeland. It hasn't gotten any better since then.
Besides murdering women and children, Israelis routinely torture Palestinian
prisoners in jail. And almost all of it has been kept hidden by the
mainstream American mass-media for 55 years.
Just to give you another example of who the Israelis really are: in 1946,
Menachem Begin's terrorist organization blew up the King David Hotel in
Jerusalem, murdering British nurses, in order to drive the British out of
Palestine. Israeli society later rewarded Menachem Begin by electing him
Prime Minister.
The United States government gives billions of your tax dollars to the
Israelis every year. And the U.S. government never pays people to do things
it doesn't want done. Israeli state terrorism is essentially American state
terrorism.
1953 - PRESENT
AMERICAN-BACKED GENOCIDE
Note: Americans did nothing. Only their alleged "support" is alleged.
It's funny, when Latin Americans slaughter each other, Americans are
the guilty ones....

Communist rebel's reign of terror which exterminate millions is
applauded by european allies


OF THE GUATEMALAN PEOPLE
Post by => Vox Populi ©
Estimated civilian deaths: over 200,000 people
From Rogue State: A Guide to the World's Only Superpower
A CIA-organized coup overthrew the democratically-elected and progressive
government of Jacobo Arbenz, initiating 40 years of military-government
death squads, torture, disappearances, mass executions and unimaginable
cruelty, totaling more than 200,000 victims - indisputably one of the most
inhumane chapters of the 20th century.
The justification for the coup that has been put forth over the years is
that Guatemala had been on the verge of the proverbial Soviet takeover. In
actuality, the Russians had so little interest in the country that it didn't
even maintain diplomatic relations. The real problem was that Arbenz had
taken over some of the uncultivated land of the US firm, United Fruit
Company [Chiquita bananas], which had extremely close ties to the American
power elite.
Moreover, in the eyes of Washington, there was the danger of Guatemala's
social-democracy model spreading to other countries in Latin America.
Despite a 1996 "peace" accord between the government and rebels, respect for
human rights remains as only a concept in Guatemala; death squads continue
to operate with a significant measure of impunity against union activists
and other dissidents; torture still rears its ugly head; the lower classes
are as wretched as ever; the military endures as a formidable institution;
the US continues to arm and train the Guatemalan military and carry out
exercises with it; and key provisions of the peace accord concerning
military reform have not been carried out.
1955 - 1973
AMERICAN GENOCIDE OF THE CAMBODIAN PEOPLE
American genocide? The Cambodians backed by Mao slaughtered 1.7 m.
Cambodias
ns

America was the ENEMY of communists
Post by => Vox Populi ©
Estimated total civilian deaths: 1,000,000 - 2,000,000 people
Prince Sihanouk was yet another leader who did not fancy being an American
client. After many years of hostility toward his regime, including
assassination plots and the infamous Nixon/Kissinger secret "carpet
bombings" of 1969-70, Washington finally overthrew Sihanouk in a coup in
1970. This was all that was needed to impel Pol Pot and his Khmer Rouge
forces to enter the fray. Five years later, they took power. But the years
of American bombing had caused Cambodia's traditional economy to vanish. The
old Cambodia had been destroyed forever.
Incredibly, the Khmer Rouge were to inflict even greater misery upon this
unhappy land. And to multiply the irony, the United States supported Pol Pot
and the Khmer Rouge after their subsequent defeat by the Vietnamese.
1957 - 1973
AMERICAN GENOCIDE OF THE LAOTIAN PEOPLE
Again, Communists from Vietnam, Russia and China chose to make a proxy
war in Laos. Again, all communist warmongering is excused. Only
American defense against it is condemned.
Post by => Vox Populi ©
Estimated total civilian deaths: over 500,000 people
The Laotian left, led by the Pathet Lao, tried to effect social change
peacefully, making significant electoral gains and taking part in coalition
governments. But the United States would have none of that.
The CIA and the State Department, through force, bribery and other
pressures, engineered coups in 1958, 1959 and 1960. Eventually, the only
option left for the Pathet Lao was armed force.
The CIA created its famous "Arme Clandestine" - totaling 30,000, from every
corner of Asia - to do battle, while the US Air Force, between 1965 and
1973, rained down more than two million tons of bombs upon the people of
Laos, many of whom were forced to live in caves for years in a desperate
attempt to escape the monsters falling from the sky.
After hundreds of thousands had been killed, many more maimed, and countless
bombed villages with hardly stone standing upon stone, the Pathet Lao took
control of the country, following on the heels of events in Vietnam.
MID-1950S, 1970-71
AMERICAN ASSASSINATION ATTEMPTS ON THE ELECTED LEADER OF COSTA RICA
From Rogue State
Europeans support another Latin American dictatorship which commited
genocide against minority groups

Only the US criticizes and opposes this genocide
Post by => Vox Populi ©
To liberal American political leaders, President Jose Figueres was the
quintessential "liberal democrat", the kind of statesman they liked to
think, and liked the world to think, was the natural partner of US foreign
policy rather than the military dictators who somehow kept popping up as
allies.
Yet the United States tried to overthrow Figueres (in the 1950s, and perhaps
also in the 1970s, when he was again president), and tried to assassinate
him twice. The reasons? Figueres was not tough enough on the left, led Costa
Rica to become the first country in Central America to establish diplomatic
relations with the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe, and on occasion
questioned American foreign policy, like the Bay of Pigs invasion.
1959 - PRESENT
AMERICAN SUBVERSION AND STATE TERRORISM OF THE CUBAN PEOPLE
American resistance against Cuban dictatorship

The America-haters always love dictators.

Only America has been against dictatorships

Millions slaughted under castro's terror-regime, which Europeans
boradly support and fund
Post by => Vox Populi ©
From Killing Hope
Fidel Castro came to power at the beginning of 1959. A U.S. National
Security Council meeting of March 10, 1959 included on its agenda the
feasibility of bringing "another government to power in Cuba." There
followed 40 years of terrorist attacks, bombings, full-scale military
invasion, sanctions, embargoes, isolation, assassinations...Cuba had carried
out The Unforgivable Revolution, a very serious threat of setting a "good
example" in Latin America.
The saddest part of this is that the world will never know what kind of
society Cuba could have produced if left alone, if not constantly under the
gun and the threat of invasion, if allowed to relax its control at home. The
idealism, the vision, the talent were all there. But we'll never know. And
that of course was the idea.
1960 - PRESENT
AMERICAN ASSASSINATION OF PATRICE LUMUMBA AND SUPPORT OF STATE TERRORISM OF
THE PEOPLE OF THE CONGO/ZAIRE
KGB coup of a puppet who slaughtered thousands.
Post by => Vox Populi ©
From Killing Hope: U.S. Military and CIA Interventions Since WWII
In June 1960, Patrice Lumumba became the Congo's first prime minister after
independence from Belgium. But Belgium retained its vast mineral wealth in
Katanga province, prominent Eisenhower administration officials had
financial ties to the same wealth, and Lumumba, at Independence Day
ceremonies before a host of foreign dignitaries, called for the nation's
economic as well as its political liberation, and recounted a list of
injustices against the natives by the white owners of the country. The man
was obviously a "Communist." The poor man was obviously doomed.
Eleven days later, Katanga province seceded, in September, Lumumba was
dismissed by the president at the instigation of the United States, and in
January 1961 he was assassinated at the express request of [President]
Dwight Eisenhower. There followed several years of civil conflict and chaos
and the rise to power of Mobutu Sese Seko, a man not a stranger to the CIA.
Mobutu went on to rule the country for more than 30 years, with a level of
corruption and cruelty that shocked even his CIA handlers. The Zairian
people lived in abject poverty despite the plentiful natural wealth, while
Mobutu became a multibillionaire.
1960S - PRESENT
AMERICAN SUPPORT FOR COLOMBIAN STATE TERRORISM OF THE COLOMBIAN PEOPLE
Estimated civilian deaths: over 67,000 people
European sponsored FARC communist murderers slaughter thousands
including genocide against native americans

Europe applauds
Post by => Vox Populi ©
Under the guise of aid for "counternarcotics" operations, the U.S. Corporate
Mafia Government is supplying weapons, training, troops and $1.3 billion of
American taxpayers' money to its murderous apprentices in the Colombian
military. The real purpose of all this aid is to support the government's
massive political oppression of the Colombian people. It's Vietnam all over
again.
Colombia is the most violent country in the world. The vast majority of the
terror is committed by the U.S.-supported military and right-wing
paramilitary forces - who are heavily involved in cocaine production and
smuggling. They have tortured and murdered tens of thousands of people in
trade unions and left-wing movements, including many human rights activists
and grassroots organizers.
1963
AMERICAN/BRITISH ASSASSINATION OF THE LEADER OF IRAQ
French sposnored Fascist coup detat

The US had no involvement, unlike Britain and France who continued to
meddle
Post by => Vox Populi ©
In July 1958, Gen. Abdul Karim Kassem overthrew the monarchy and established
a republic. Though somewhat of a reformist, he was by no means any kind of
radical. His action, however, awakened revolutionary fervor in the masses
and increased the influence of the Iraqi Communist Party.
By April of the following year, CIA Director Allen Dulles, with his
customary hyperbole, was telling Congress that the Iraqi Communists were
close to a "complete takeover" and the situation in that country was "the
most dangerous in the world today." In actuality, Kassem aimed at being a
neutralist in the Cold War and pursued rather inconsistent policies toward
the Iraqi Communists, never allowing them formal representation in his
cabinet, nor even full legality, though they strongly desired both. He tried
to maintain power by playing the Communists off against other ideological
groups.
A secret plan for a joint US-Turkish invasion of the country was drafted by
the United States Joint Chiefs of Staff shortly after the 1958 coup.
Reportedly, only Soviet threats to intercede on Iraq's side forced
Washington to hold back. But in 1960, the United States began to fund the
Kurdish guerrillas in Iraq who were fighting for a measure of autonomy and
the CIA undertook an assassination attempt against Kassem, which was
unsuccessful.
The Iraqi leader made himself even more of a marked man when, in that same
year, he began to help create the Organization of Petroleum Exporting
Countries (OPEC), which challenged the stranglehold Western oil companies
had on the marketing of Arab oil; and in 1962 he created a national oil
company to exploit the nation's oil.
In February 1963, Kassem told the French daily, Le Monde, that he had
received a note from Washington - "in terms scarcely veiled, calling upon me
to change my attitude, under threat of sanctions against Iraq... All our
trouble with the imperialists [the US and the UK] began the day we claimed
our legitimate rights to Kuwait." (Kuwait was a key element in US and UK
hegemonic designs over mid-east oil.)
A few days after Kassem's remarks were published, he was overthrown in a
coup and summarily executed; thousands of communists were killed.
The State Department soon informed the press that it was pleased that the
new regime would respect international agreements and was not interested in
nationalizing the giant Iraq Petroleum Co., of which the US was a major
owner. The new government, at least for the time being, also cooled its
claim to Kuwait.
Papers of the British cabinet of 1963, later declassified, disclose that the
coup had been backed by the British and the CIA.
1963 - 1966
AMERICAN SUBVERSION AND TYRANNY IN THE DOMINICAN REPUBLIC
KGB-sponsored war and violence.
only the US opposed these violations of human rights to establish a
communist dictatorship

Europe applauds pro-communist massacres
Post by => Vox Populi ©
From Killing Hope
In February 1963, Juan Bosch took office as the first democratically elected
president of the Dominican Republic since 1924. Here at last was John F.
Kennedy's liberal anti-Communist, to counter the charge that the U.S.
supported only military dictatorships. Bosch's government was to be the long
sought "showcase of democracy" that would put the lie to Fidel Castro. He
was given the grand treatment in Washington shortly before he took office.
Bosch was true to his beliefs. He called for land reform, low-rent housing,
modest nationalization of business, and foreign investment provided it was
not excessively exploitative of the country and other policies making up the
program of any liberal Third World leader serious about social change. He
was likewise serious about civil liberties: Communists, or those labeled as
such, were not to be persecuted unless they actually violated the law.
A number of American officials and congresspeople expressed their discomfort
with Bosch's plans, as well as his stance of independence from the United
States. Land reform and nationalization are always touchy issues in
Washington, the stuff that "creeping socialism" is made of. In several
quarters of the U.S. press Bosch was red-baited.
In September, the military boots marched. Bosch was out. The United States,
which could discourage a military coup in Latin America with a frown, did
nothing.
Nineteen months later, a revolt broke out which promised to put the exiled
Bosch back into power. The United States sent 23,000 troops to help crush
it.
1964 - 1974
AMERICAN-BACKED SUBVERSION, MASS-MURDER, TORTURE AND OVERTHROW OF DEMOCRACY
IN GREECE
KGB-sponsored war and violence.
only the US opposed these violations of human rights to establish a
communist dictatorship

Europe applauds pro-communist massacres
Post by => Vox Populi ©
Estimated civilian deaths: over 10,000 people
From Killing Hope
The military coup took place in April 1967, just two days before the
campaign for national elections was to begin, elections which appeared
certain to bring the veteran liberal leader George Papandreou back as prime
minister. Papandreou had been elected in February 1964 with the only
outright majority in the history of modern Greek elections. The successful
machinations to unseat him had begun immediately, a joint effort of the
Royal Court, the Greek military, and the American military and CIA stationed
in Greece.
The 1967 coup was followed immediately by the traditional martial law,
censorship, arrests, beatings, torture, and killings, the victims totaling
some 8,000 in the first month. This was accompanied by the equally
traditional declaration that this was all being done to save the nation from
a "Communist takeover." Corrupting and subversive influences in Greek life
were to be removed. Among these were miniskirts, long hair, and foreign
newspapers; church attendance for the young would be compulsory.
It was torture, however, which most indelibly marked the seven-year Greek
nightmare. James Becket, an American attorney sent to Greece by Amnesty
International, wrote in December 1969 that "a conservative estimate would
place at not less than two thousand" the number of people tortured, usually
in the most gruesome of ways, often with equipment supplied by the United
States.
Becket reported the following: Hundreds of prisoners have listened to the
little speech given by Inspector Basil Lambrou, who sits behind his desk
which displays the red, white, and blue clasped-hand symbol of American aid.
"You make yourself ridiculous by thinking you can do anything. The world is
divided in two. There are the communists on that side and on this side the
free world. The Russians and the Americans, no one else. What are we?
Americans. Behind me there is the government, behind the government is NATO,
behind NATO is the U.S. You can't fight us, we are Americans."
George Papandreou was not any kind of radical. He was a liberal
anti-Communist type. But his son Andreas, the heir-apparent, while only a
little to the left of his father had not disguised his wish to take Greece
out of the Cold War, and had questioned remaining in NATO, or at least as a
satellite of the United States.
1964 - 1973
AMERICAN-BACKED OVERTHROW OF THE DEMOCRATIC GOVERNMENT OF CHILE
KGB-sponsored war and violence.
only the US opposed these violations of human rights to establish a
communist dictatorship

Europe applauds pro-communist massacres
Post by => Vox Populi ©
Estimated civilian deaths: over 5000 people from the subsequent Pinochet
terror campaign; at least 1000 people missing and presumed dead
From Killing Hope
[Democratic Marxist President] Salvador Allende was the worst possible
scenario for a Washington imperialist, [who] could imagine only one thing
worse than a Marxist in power - an elected Marxist in power, who honored the
constitution, and became increasingly popular. This shook the very
foundation stones on which the anti-Communist tower was built: the doctrine,
painstakingly cultivated for decades, that "communists" can take power only
through force and deception, that they can retain that power only through
terrorizing and brainwashing the population.
After sabotaging Allende's electoral endeavor in 1964, and failing to do so
in 1970, despite their best efforts, the CIA and the rest of the American
foreign policy machine left no stone unturned in their attempt to
destabilize the Allende government over the next three years, paying
particular attention to building up military hostility. Finally, in
September 1973, the military overthrew the government, Allende dying in the
process.
They closed the country to the outside world for a week, while the tanks
rolled and the soldiers broke down doors; the stadiums rang with the sounds
of execution and the bodies piled up along the streets and floated in the
river; the torture centers opened for business; the subversive books were
thrown into bonfires; soldiers slit the trouser legs of women, shouting that
"In Chile women wear dresses!"; the poor returned to their natural state;
and the men of the world in Washington and in the halls of international
finance opened up their check-books. In the end, more than 3,000 had been
executed, thousands more tortured or disappeared.
(End of Killing Hope excerpt)
In the bloody coup of September 11, 1973, Henry Kissinger and the CIA helped
General Augusto Pinochet overthrow the democratically-elected leftist
government of President Salvador Allende. The Fascist puppet-regime of
Augusto Pinochet then embarked on a 17-year terror campaign against the
people of Chile, which included mass arrests and executions, death squads,
torture and disappearances. Many of the victims were fingered as "radicals"
by lists provided by the CIA.
Santiago's national stadium was used as a mass execution site. Robert
Saldias, the first army officer to come forward publicly without concealing
his identity, said prisoners entering the stadium were identified by yellow,
black, and red discs. "Whoever received a red disc had no chance," Saldias
said.
Many of the professional torturers and assassins in the Chilean military
(and in every other Fascist country of Central and South America) were
trained at the School of the Americas, in Fort Benning, Georgia.
Under Pinochet, Chile also participated in "Operation Condor," a joint
collaboration between the U.S.-backed dictatorships of Chile, Argentina,
Paraguay, Uruguay and Brazil to hunt down and murder exiled opponents of
those regimes. Successful hits included the 1976 car-bomb explosion in
Washington D.C., which killed Allende's exiled foreign minister Orlando
Letelier, and his aide, American Ronnie Moffitt.
"I don't see why we need to stand by and watch a country go communist
because of the irresponsibility of its own people."
- Henry Kissinger, 1970
referring to Chilean voters
1965 - 1973
AMERICAN TYRANNY AND TERRORIZATION OF THE PEOPLE OF THAILAND
KGB-sponsored war and violence.
only the US opposed these violations of human rights to establish a
communist dictatorship

Europe applauds pro-communist massacres
Post by => Vox Populi ©
While using the country to facilitate its daily bombings of Vietnam and
Laos, the US military took the time to try to suppress insurgents who were
fighting for economic reform, an end to police repression and in opposition
to the mammoth US military presence, with its huge airbases, piers,
barracks, road building and other major projects, which appeared to be
taking the country apart and taking it over.
Eventually, the American military personnel count in Thailand reached
40,000, with those engaged in the civil conflict - including 365 Green Beret
forces - officially designated as "advisers", as they were in Vietnam.
To fight the guerillas, the US financed, armed, equipped and trained police
and military units in counter-insurgency, significantly increasing their
numbers; transported government forces by helicopter to combat areas; were
present in the field as well, as battalion advisers and sometimes
accompanied Thai soldiers on anti-guerrilla sweeps.
In addition, the Americans instituted considerable propaganda and
psychological warfare activities, and actually encouraged the Thai
government to adopt a more forceful response. However, the conflict in
Thailand, and the US role, never approached the dimensions of Vietnam.
In 1966, the Washington Post reported that "In the view of some observers,
continued dictatorship in Thailand suits the United States, since it assures
a continuation of American bases in the country and that, as a US official
put it bluntly, 'is our real interest in this place.'"
1975 - 1999
AMERICAN-BACKED GENOCIDE OF THE PEOPLE OF EAST TIMOR
KGB-sponsored war and violence.
only the US opposed these violations of human rights to establish a
communist dictatorship

Europe applauds pro-communist massacres
Post by => Vox Populi ©
Estimated civilian deaths: over 200,000 people
From Killing Hope
In December 1975, Indonesia invaded East Timor, which lies at the eastern
end of the Indonesian archipelago, and which had proclaimed its independence
after Portugal had relinquished control of it. The invasion was launched the
day after U.S. President Gerald Ford and Secretary of State Henry Kissinger
had left Indonesia after giving Suharto permission to use American arms,
which, under U.S. law, could not be used for aggression. Indonesia was
Washington's most valuable tool in Southeast Asia.
Amnesty International estimated that by 1989, Indonesian troops, with the
aim of forcibly annexing East Timor, had killed 200,000 people out of a
population of between 600,000 and 700,000. The United States consistently
supported Indonesia's claim to East Timor (unlike the UN and the EU), and
downplayed the slaughter to a remarkable degree, at the same time supplying
Indonesia with all the military hardware and training it needed to carry out
the job.
From Derailing Democracy
The U.S.-backed government of Indonesia invaded East Timor just one day
after a visit by President Gerald Ford and Henry Kissinger. As many as a
third of the tiny island's population were exterminated using American
supplied weaponry.
The Indonesian government, kept propped up with U.S. taxpayers' money,
continues to this day to be one of the worst human rights abusers on the
planet.
1979 - 1992
AMERICAN SUBVERSION IN AFGHANISTAN
Estimated civilian deaths: over 1,000,000 people
From Killing Hope
Everyone knows of the unbelievable repression of women in Afghanistan,
carried out by Islamic fundamentalists, even before the Taliban. But how
many people know that during the late 1970s and most of the 1980s,
Afghanistan had a government committed to bringing the incredibly backward
nation into the 20th century, including giving women equal rights?
What happened, however, is that the United States poured billions of dollars
into waging a terrible war against this government, simply because it was
supported by the Soviet Union. Prior to this, CIA operations had knowingly
increased the probability of a Soviet intervention, which is what occurred.
In the end, the United States won, and the women, and the rest of
Afghanistan, lost. More than a million dead, three million disabled, five
million refugees, in total about half the population.
Imperial Hypocrisy: American/British state terrorism of the Afghan Peoples,
2001-2002
The Truth About American Terrorism of the Afghan Peoples
1981 - 1989
AMERICAN TERROR-CAMPAIGN AGAINST THE LIBYAN PEOPLE;
NUMEROUS CIA ASSASSINATION ATTEMPTS ON MUAMMAR QADHAFI
Massmurder Qudaffi kills hundreds of Americans
Post by => Vox Populi ©
Estimated civilian deaths from the April 1986 attack: over 100 people,
including Qadhafi's two-year-old daughter
From Rogue State
The official reason for the Reagan administration's intense antipathy toward
Moammar Qaddafi was that he supported terrorism. In actuality, the Libyan
leader's crime was not his support for terrorist groups per se, but that he
was supporting the wrong terrorist groups; i.e., Qaddafi was not supporting
the same terrorists that Reagan was, such as the Nicaraguan Contras, UNITA
in Angola, Cuban exiles in Miami, the governments of El Salvador and
Guatemala and the U.S. military in Grenada. The one band of terrorists the
two men supported in common was the Moujahedeen in Afghanistan.
On top of this, Washington has a deep-seated antipathy toward Middle east
oil-producing countries that it can't exert proper control over. Qaddafi was
uppity, and he had overthrown a rich ruling clique and instituted a welfare
state. He and his country would have to be put in their place. Five years
later, the United States bombed one of Qaddafi's residences, killing scores
of people. There were other attempts to assassinate the man, operations to
overthrow him, economic sanctions, and a major disinformation campaign
reporting one piece of nonsense after another, including conspicuous
exaggerations of his support for terrorism, and shifting the blame for the
1988 bombing of PanAm 103 to Libya and away from Iran and Syria when the
Gulf War campaign required the support of the latter two countries.
To Washington, Libya was like magnetic north: the finger always pointed
there.
(End of Rogue State excerpt)
On April 15, 1986, 19 warplanes of the U.S. Air Force took off from their
bases in Great Britain and flew to Libya, whereupon the heroic F111 pilots
bombed the private house of Muammar Qadhafi and violently murdered his
little two-year-old daughter.
At least 100 other people - including civilian men, women and children -
were slaughtered as the U.S. Air Force pilots bombed private homes and
mosques all over Tripoli and Benghazi.
They actually managed to hit a military target too, the Al-Azizia barracks,
which was Qadhafi's headquarters. On April 16 the American pilots who
perpetrated these war crimes openly admitted that the purpose of the attack
had been to assassinate Qadhafi.
For years prior to this outrage the U.S. Corporate Mafia Government had been
trying to murder the popular Libyan leader. Navy jets from the U.S. Sixth
Fleet had repeatedly violated Libyan airspace while Navy ships violated
Libyan territorial waters in bullying attempts to provoke a reaction.
The U.S. Navy shot down Libyan planes over Libyan territory, and sank Libyan
Coast Guard boats in Libyan territorial waters. Here are some of the
· In the summer of 1980 the CIA attempted to shoot down the plane of
Qadhafi as he was on a flight to Eastern Europe. An Italian plane flying
over Ostika was mistakenly shot down instead.
· July 27, 1981 - Newsweek published an article reporting that CIA
Director William Casey had authorized extensive plans to assassinate Qadhafi
and overthrow the popular democratic government of Libya. This classic
American M.O. included a media propaganda campaign and numerous "psy-ops",
or psychological warfare operations, aimed at creating turmoil within Libya.
· August 19, 1981 - Eight American jet fighters attacked two Libyan
air force reconnaissance planes over Libyan territory in the Gulf of Sirte,
shooting them down.
· 1985 - The CIA recruited mercenaries to be trained for several
attempts to assassinate Qadhafi. One of the plans called for sprinkling a
special poison into his food that would weaken his immune system, causing a
gradual death with symptoms that would not be immediately recognized.
· March 25, 1986 - U.S. Navy warplanes from the Sixth Fleet bombed
Libyan civilian targets in the Gulf of Sirte. They attacked a Libyan Coast
Guard boat, murdering the crew of 10 men. The Navy jets also attacked a
larger Libyan Coast Guard ship. 42 men of the crew escaped into the water
and attempted to swim to shore. The U.S. Navy pilots slaughtered them all in
the water.
· April 4, 1986 - While on a victory tour of the aircraft carrier
"Enterprise", stationed off the coast of Oman, Vice President George Bush
characterized the U.S. Sixth Fleet's terror campaign against innocent Libyan
people as "a tough lesson for Qadhafi" which had given him a "nosebleed".
The brainwashed morons of the crew cheered.
Eleven days later, over 100 innocent people lay dead in the cities of
Tripoli and Benghazi - including a little two-year-old girl. Murdered by
these American heros.
1981 - 1990
AMERICAN TERRORISM OF THE NICARAGUAN PEOPLE
Estimated civilian deaths: over 13,000 people
KGB-sponsored war and violence.
only the US opposed these violations of human rights to establish a
communist dictatorship

Europe applauds pro-communist massacres
Post by => Vox Populi ©
From Derailing Democracy
Following the fall of the Somoza regime, which had been backed for decades
by the U.S., the CIA formed and armed the covert army known as the "Contras"
from the remains of Somoza's National Guard. Assisted by covert U.S. air
power, this proxy army inflicted considerable death and destruction across
the Nicaraguan countryside.
From Killing Hope
When the Sandinistas overthrew the Somoza dictatorship in 1978, it was clear
to Washington that they might well be that long-dreaded beast - "another
Cuba." Under President Carter, attempts to sabotage the revolution took
diplomatic and economic forms. Under Reagan, violence was the method of
choice. For eight terribly long years, the people of Nicaragua were under
attack by Washington's proxy army, the Contras, formed from Somoza's vicious
National Guard and other supporters of the dictator.
It was all-out war, aiming to destroy the progressive social and economic
programs of the government, burning down schools and medical clinics,
raping, torturing, mining harbors, bombing and strafing. These were Ronald
Reagan's "freedom fighters." There would be no revolution in Nicaragua.
From a talk by John Stockwell, 13-year veteran of the CIA and former U.S.
"Systematically, the Contras have been assassinating religious workers,
teachers, health workers, elected officials, government administrators.
Remember the 'Assassination Manual' that surfaced in 1984? It caused such a
stir that President Reagan had to address it himself in the presidential
debates with Walter Mondale. They use terror to traumatize society so that
it cannot function.
"I don't mean to abuse you with verbal violence, but you have to understand
what your Government and its agents are doing.
"They go into villages. They haul out families. With the children forced to
watch, they castrate the father. They peel the skin off his face. They put a
grenade in his mouth, and pull the pin. With the children forced to watch,
they gang-rape the mother, and slash her breasts off. And sometimes, for
variety, they make the parents watch while they do these things to the
children.
"This is nobody's propaganda!
"There have been over a hundred thousand American 'Witnesses for Peace' who'
ve gone down there, and they have filmed and photographed and witnessed
these atrocities immediately after they've happened, and documented thirteen
thousand people killed this way - mostly women and children.
"These are the activities done by the Contras. The Contras are the people
President Reagan called 'freedom fighters.' He said: 'they are the moral
equivalent of our founding fathers.'"
1980 - PRESENT
AMERICAN TERRORISM OF THE EL SALVADORAN PEOPLE
KGB-sponsored war and violence.
only the US opposed these violations of human rights to establish a
communist dictatorship

Europe applauds pro-communist massacres
Post by => Vox Populi ©
Estimated civilian deaths: over 75,000 people
From Derailing Democracy: The America the Media Don't Want You to See
Massive amounts of arms, training and funding were poured into El Salvador
to prop up the puppet government against a popular uprising. Featured the
covert use of U.S. air power and ground forces, as well as the training, at
the "School of the Americas" [in Ft. Benning, Georgia], of the leaders of
the right-wing death squads which executed thousands of Salvadorans.
Some of the highlights of the death squad activities included the
assassination of Archbishop Oscar Romero, the execution of six Jesuit
priests along with their housekeeper and her daughter, the rape and
execution of four American church women, and the mass execution of some 800
civilians at the village of El Mozote.
From Killing Hope
El Salvador's dissidents tried to work within the system. But with U.S.
support, the government made that impossible, using repeated electoral fraud
and murdering hundreds of protesters and strikers. In 1980, the dissidents
took to the gun, and civil war.
Officially, the U.S. military presence in El Salvador was limited to an
advisory capacity. In actuality, military and CIA personnel played a more
active role on a continuous basis. About 20 Americans were killed or wounded
in helicopter and plane crashes while flying reconnaissance or other
missions over combat areas, and considerable evidence surfaced of a U.S.
role in the ground fighting as well. The war came to an official end in
1992; 75,000 civilian deaths and the U.S. Treasury depleted by six billion
dollars.
Meaningful social change has been largely thwarted. A handful of the wealthy
still own the country, the poor remain as ever, and dissidents still have to
fear right-wing death squads.
1987 - 1994
AMERICAN-SUPPORTED STATE TERRORISM OF THE HAITIAN PEOPLE
From Killing Hope
The U.S. supported the Duvalier family dictatorship for 30 years, then
opposed the reformist priest, Jean-Bertrand Aristide. Meanwhile, the CIA was
working intimately with death squads, torturers, and drug traffickers.
With this as background, the Clinton White House found itself in the awkward
position of having to pretend - because of all their rhetoric about
"democracy" - that they supported Aristide's return to power in Haiti after
he had been ousted in a 1991 military coup. After delaying his return for
more than two years, Washington finally had its military restore Aristide to
office, but only after obliging the priest to guarantee that he would not
help the poor at the expense of the rich, and that he would stick closely to
free-market economics. This meant that Haiti would continue to be the
assembly plant of the Western Hemisphere, with its workers receiving
literally starvation wages.
1988
U.S. NAVY MASS-MURDER OF CIVILIAN IRANIAN AIRLINE PASSENGERS
Accident, unlike the Iranian attacks on Khobar towers, and Marine
barracks in Beirut killing hundred of French and American peacekeepers
Post by => Vox Populi ©
Known civilian deaths: 290 people
"Pan Am Flight 103: Trial opens of Libyans accused of Lockerbie bombing"
By Steve James
6 May 2000
www.wsws.org/articles/200...-m06.shtml
On July 3, 1988 the U.S. Navy warship the Vincennes was operating within
Iranian waters, providing military support for Iraq in the ongoing Iran/Iraq
war. During a one-sided battle against a small number of lightly armed
Iranian gunboats, the Vincennes fired two missiles at an [Iranian] Airbus,
which was on a routine civilian flight. All 290 civilians onboard were
killed.
This act of mass murder by the U.S. has never resulted in any court case.
The captain and crew of the Vincennes were militarily decorated. Attempts by
relatives of the victims to bring legal action against the American
government were rejected by the US Supreme Court in 1993. Despite the fact
that the vast majority of victims were Iranian, the US paid $2.9 million in
compensation only to non-Iranian victims of the shooting.
"I will never apologize for the United States of America - I don't care what
the facts are."
- President George Bush, Sr.
referring to the mass-murder
of Iranian civilian people
by the U.S.S. Vincennes
1979 - 1984
AMERICAN SUBVERSION AND INVASION OF TINY GRENADA
KGB coupdetat overturned by the US
Europe laments failed Cuban action
Post by => Vox Populi ©
Estimated civilian deaths: several hundred people
From Rogue State
How impoverished, small, weak or far away must a country be before it is not
a threat to the U.S. government? In a 1979 coup, Maurice Bishop and his
followers had taken power in this island country of 110 thousand, and though
their actual policies were not as revolutionary as Castro's, Washington was
again driven by its fear of "another Cuba," particularly when public
appearances by the Grenadian leaders in other countries of the region met
with great enthusiasm.
Reagan administration destabilization tactics against the Bishop government
began soon after the coup, featuring outrageous disinformation and
deception. Finally came the invasion in October 1983, which put into power
individuals more beholden to U.S. foreign policy objectives. The U.S.
suffered 135 killed or wounded; there were also some 400 Grenadian
casualties, and 84 Cubans, mainly construction workers. The invasion was
attended by yet more transparent lies, created by Washington to justify its
gross violations of international law.
(Added note: This invasion was not attended, however, by newsreporters. The
1983 invasion of Grenada was the first major American military assault in
which newsreporters were barred from being present. The U.S. government didn
't want the world to witness the great superpower beating up on a tiny
island and murdering its civilian inhabitants.)
From What Uncle Sam Really Wants
No country is exempt from this treatment [i.e. American state terrorism], no
matter how unimportant. In fact, it's the weakest, poorest countries that
often arouse the greatest hysteria.
Grenada has a hundred thousand people who produce a little nutmeg, and you
could hardly find it on a map. But when Grenada began to undergo a mild
social revolution, Washington quickly moved to destroy the threat.
There's a reason for that. The weaker and poorer a country is, the more
dangerous it is as an example. If a tiny, poor country like Grenada can
succeed in bringing about a better life for its people, some other place
that has more resources will ask, "why not us?"
From Killing Hope
At the end of 1984, a questionable election was held which was won by a man
supported by the Reagan administration. One year later, the human rights
organization, Council on Hemispheric Affairs, reported that Grenada's new
U.S.-trained police force and counter-insurgency forces had acquired a
reputation for brutality, arbitrary arrest, and abuse of authority, and were
eroding civil rights.
In April 1989, the government issued a list of more than 80 books which were
prohibited from being imported. Four months later, the prime minister
suspended parliament to forestall a threatened no-confidence vote resulting
from what his critics called "an increasingly authoritarian style."
1989
AMERICAN INVASION OF PANAMA
Europe laments collapse of drug-gang
Post by => Vox Populi ©
Estimated civilian deaths: several thousand people
From Rogue State
Less than two weeks after the fall of the Berlin Wall, the United States
showed its joy that a new era of world peace was now possible by invading
Panama, as Washington's mad bombers struck again. On December 20, 1989, a
large tenement barrio in Panama City was wiped out; 15,000 people were left
homeless. Counting several days of ground fighting between U.S. and
Panamanian forces, 500-something natives dead was the official body count -
i.e., what the United States and the new U.S.-installed Panamanian
government admitted to. Other sources, examining more evidence, concluded
that thousands had died. Additionally, some 3,000 Panamanians were wounded,
23 Americans died, 324 were wounded.
Question from reporter: "Was it really worth it to send people to their
death for this? To get Noriega?"
George Bush: "Every human life is precious, and yet I have to answer, yes,
it has been worth it."
Manuel Noriega had been an American ally and informant for years until he
outlived his usefulness. But getting him was hardly a major motive for the
attack. Bush wanted to send a clear message to the people of Nicaragua, who
had an election scheduled in two months, that this might be their fate if
they reelected the Sandinistas. Bush also wanted to flex some military
muscle to illustrate to Congress the need for a large combat-ready force
even after the very recent dissolution of the "Soviet threat." The official
explanation for the American ouster was Noriega's drug trafficking, which
Washington had known about for years and had not been at all bothered by.
And they could easily have gotten their hands on the man without wreaking
such terrible devastation upon the Panamanian people.
1991 - PRESENT
AMERICAN/BRITISH STATE TERRORISM OF THE IRAQI PEOPLE
Europe laments action against genocidal massmurderer Saddam
Post by => Vox Populi ©
Estimated total civilian deaths: at least 200,000 people directly from the
1991 terror campaign;
1,000,000 - 2,000,000 people since then from the combined effects of
depleted uranium poisoning, polluted water and sanctions
Like the terrorization of the entire civilian population of Yugoslavia, the
so-called Gulf "War" was in fact a cowardly, high-tech slaughter, a total
mismatch of military power. 177 million pounds of bombs were dropped on the
people of Iraq in the most concentrated aerial bombardment in the history of
the world. Sadistic American forces even slaughtered retreating Iraqi
soldiers as they tried to flee along a highway back to Iraq.
And as with Yugoslavia, the "Desert Storm" terror campaign was directed
primarily against the civilian population, a genocidal six-week assault on
all the civilian people and infrastructure of Iraq. Particularly targeted
were every grain silo and public water-treatment plant in the country. The
assault included the most extensive use in history of depleted uranium
missiles, and the most intensive use of cluster bombs, fuel-air bombs,
napalm, cruise missiles and so-called "smart bombs".
The Dutch Laka Foundation estimates that this particular U.S. terror
campaign left behind 300-800 tons of radioactive waste from the depleted
uranium ammunition all over Kuwait and Iraq - poisoning the air, the land,
the water and the people everywhere.
Afterwards, wherever the depleted uranium firing had been concentrated,
there were cancer epidemics among Iraqi civilians living nearby. In the ten
years since, sanctions, bacteria-laden water and depleted uranium together
have killed somewhere between 1,000,000 and 2,000,000 Iraqi civilians. Most
of the victims were, and are, children.
Since the American terror campaign, thousands of Iraqi babies have been born
with horrible birth defects. This is something that has never before been
seen in Iraq.
More than 120,000 American Gulf War veterans are chronically ill - suffering
from Gulf War Syndrome. A U.S. Department of Veterans study of 251 veterans'
families found that 67% had children with severe illnesses or birth defects.
Even the United Nations estimates that over one million Iraqi civilians,
including 600,000 children below the age of five have died as a result of
diseases from polluted water - and the American sanctions which deny them
the needed medicines.
1992 - PRESENT
AMERICAN/NATO STATE TERRORISM AND SUBVERSION OF THE YUGOSLAVIAN PEOPLES
Estimated civilian deaths: over 3000 people from the 1999 terror-bombing
Weapons of mass-destruction used by U.S.-dominated NATO forces included
cluster bombs, depleted uranium missiles, fuel-air bombs, napalm, cruise
missiles and other so-called "smart bombs".
250,000 people were killed during the U.S./German-sponsored civil war in
Bosnia of 1992-1995, and in Krajina, 1995.
Estimated civilian injuries: 9000+ people from the 1999 American terror
campaign alone. Many people, including children, dismembered and crippled
for life by cluster bombs.
In addition, over 1 million people who now live in Serbia-Yugoslavia are
refugees from Krajina, Bosnia and Kosovo - victims of the
U.S./German-sponsored terror campaigns of the 1990s.
For 78 days and nights in the Spring of 1999, United States Air Force and
Navy pilots rained death indiscriminately upon women and children, old men
and women shopping in marketplaces, passengers in trains, people in cars and
buses, people in schools, patients in hospitals - anyone and everyone -
everywhere in Yugoslavia.
The American terror campaign actually began in 1992 with the American/German
sponsored subversion and breakup of Yugoslavia and subsequent civil war in
Bosnia. It continued with the "ethnic cleansing" of approximately 300,000 to
500,000 Serbians from the Krajina region in 1995. Thousands of Serbian
refugees were murdered as they tried to flee the sadistic, gratuitous
bombing by the American-backed Croatian forces. American terrorism peaked
with the bombing of the entire civilian population and infrastructure of
Yugoslavia in 1999. It has continued to this day with the brutal occupation
of Kosovo.
NATO/KFOR occupation troops have stood idly by, watching sympathetically as
Albanian extremists kidnapped, publicly beat, murdered and tortured Serbs,
Roma and Jews, burning down their houses and dynamiting centuries-old
Christian churches. Over 200,000 non-Albanians were "ethnically cleansed"
from Kosovo with America's total blessing.
As if this weren't appalling enough, a massive sex-slave trade of Eastern
European women and girls has flourished in Kosovo since the American/NATO
occupation began. The women and girls are often beaten, they are forced to
live in poverty and filth, they are raped many times every day, and many are
murdered. The pimps are all Albanian KLA/mafia with a reputation for brutal
violence. The customers are American/NATO occupation troops (ludicrously
called "peacekeepers" by the corporate-owned mass-media) and so-called
"international peace workers".
Ah yes, "humanitarianism" and "democracy". Isn't that what America is all
about?
1993
AMERICAN SLAUGHTER OF PEOPLE IN SOMALIA
Ha ha ha ha ha
Americans delivered food aid but were attacked.
Now you blame the US, which was only trying to help.
Post by => Vox Populi ©
Estimated civilian deaths: 10,000 people
From Rogue State
It was supposed to be a mission to help feed the starving masses. Before
long, the U.S. was trying to rearrange the country's political map by
eliminating the dominant warlord, Mohamed Aidid, and his power base. On many
occasions, beginning in June, U.S. helicopters strafed groups of Aidid's
supporters and fired missiles at them. Scores were killed. Then, in October,
a daring attempt by some 120 elite American forces to kidnap two leaders of
Aidid's clan resulted in a horrendous bloody battle. The final tally was
five U.S. helicopters shot down, 18 Americans dead, 73 wounded, 500 to 1000
Somalians killed, many more injured.
It's questionable that getting food to hungry people was as important as the
fact that four American oil giants were holding exploratory rights to large
areas of land and were hoping that U.S. troops would put an end to the chaos
which threatened their highly expensive investments. There was also the
Pentagon's ongoing need to sell itself to those in Congress who were trying
to cut the military budget in the post-Cold War world. "Humanitarian"
actions and (unnecessary) amphibious landings by U.S. Marines on the beach
in the glare of T.V. cameras were thought to be good selling points.
Washington designed the operation in such a way that the show would be run
by the U.S. military and not the United Nations, under whose aegis it
supposedly fell.
In any event, by the time the Marines landed, the worst of the famine was
over. It had peaked months before.
On December 12, 1992, the U.S. sent 28,000 soldiers into Somalia under the
cover of the United Nations Operation in Somalia (UNOSOM) in what they said
was a "humanitarian mission" to bring food to starving people. The invasion
came when a several-year drought that had taken tens of thousands of lives
was actually abating. At the time, the evening news showed images of
thousands of starving Somalis. What people didn't see was U.S. troops - not
delivering food - but instead engaged in daily gun battles and bombing raids
in heavily populated neighborhoods. In ten months, more than 10,000 Somalis
died as the U.S. engaged in aggressive military action against those who
resisted.
Resistance among Somali women, men and even children to the foreign troops
became widespread. The Somali people have a long and proud history of
resistance. They fought for the freedom of their country from Italian,
French and British colonialism - and they resisted the U.S. attempts to
recolonize their country.
In the beginning of the military intervention in 1992, Colin Powell, at the
time the chairman of the Pentagon's Joint Chiefs of Staff, called the
invasion a "paid political advertisement" for the Pentagon at a time (less
than a year after the end of the so-called Cold War) when Congress was under
growing pressure to cut the war budget. Powell opposed calls that money be
used instead for jobs, education, health care, housing and other social
needs, and instead sought to maintain the $300-billion-plus military budget.
In reporting on the U.S./UN Operation in Somalia (UNOSOM), the human rights
organization Africa Rights stated that troops "have engaged in abuses of
human rights, including killing of civilians, physical abuse, theft... Many
UNOSOM soldiers have also displayed unacceptable levels of racism toward
Somalis." These abuses included opening fire with machine guns against
unarmed protesters, firing missiles into residential areas and outright
murder civilians, including many youth. The report states "UNOSOM has become
an army of occupation."
2001 - PRESENT
AMERICAN STATE TERRORISM OF THE AFGHAN PEOPLES
Afghanistan supported Bin Laden's genocide against Americans
Post by => Vox Populi ©
Estimated civilian deaths: 4000-5000 people
With total hypocrisy the United States military terrorized and mass-murdered
thousands of innocent Afghan civilian people, supposedly in reprisal for the
terror attacks of September 11. As they did in Yugoslavia and Iraq, heroic
U.S. Air Force pilots murdered thousands of women and children by bombing
hospitals and schools and private homes. They even bombed an Afghan wedding
party. None of these innocent, civilian victims had anything whatsoever to
do with the September 11 attacks.
Obviously the so-called "war on terrorism" is a total sham. The real reason
the U.S. is in Afghanistan is to get control of Caspian Sea oil. To get the
oil out of the Caspian basin they have to run pipelines through Afghanistan.
Most unfortunate for the hapless Afghan people.
2003
AMERICAN/BRITISH INVASION AND STATE TERRORISM OF THE IRAQI PEOPLE
Ending the genocide regime of Saddam

But no good deed goes unpunished
Post by => Vox Populi ©
Estimated civilian deaths: tens of thousands of people
In March 2003 the literally satanic U.S. military/government launched a
murderous invasion of Iraq. Disregarding America's widely scorned state
propaganda, there are three true reasons for the invasion and occupation: 1)
taking control of Iraq's oil; 2) forcing Iraq to return to using the dollar
instead of the euro for oil payments; 3) eliminating the largest,
independent Arab power on behalf of the terrorist, racist State of Israel.
Along with its British puppets, the American military destroyed the
hopelessly outgunned Iraqi military, once again slaughtering thousands of
Iraqi civilian men, women and children in the process. The racist invaders
now occupy the country and are continuing the mass murder and terrorization
of its people.
So, what's the frequency Kenneth????
The frequency is:
1. All communist, fascist crimes are ignored and denied
2. All US resistance against communist warmongering is denounced
99% of your list is from Cold War conflicts, which were essentially
KGB-sponsored civil war which the US fought against. The 100,000,000
people killed by communist dictatorship and warmongering is blamed not
on them, but on the people who fought it!
3. All crimes by third-parties is blamed on the US which "allowed" it
(presumably by not invading and stopping)
4. All kinds of genocide, murder, coup d'etat, terror is supported and
sympathized with, especially that which slaughters Americans. Any
American response is viciously and shrilly denounced.

What's the frequency, Karl?

Here is a list of 20th century death tolls. Most of the killers were
enemies of the US, and coincidentally, spiritual allies of you, Vucks:


Death List
Death Toll Event Dates
1 50,000,000 Second World War (Some overlap w/Stalin. Includes
Sino-Japanese War and Holocaust. Doesn't incl. post-war German
expulsions) 1937-45
2 48,250,000 China: Mao Zedong's regime. (incl. famine) 1949-76
3 20,000,000 USSR: Stalin's regime (incl. WW2-era atrocities) 1924-53
4 15,000,000 First World War (incl. Armenian massacres) 1914-18
5 8,800,000 Russian Civil War 1918-21
6 4,000,000 China: Warlord & Nationalist Era 1917-37
7 3,000,000 Congo Free State [n.1] 1900-08
8 2,800,000 Korean War 1950-53
9 2,700,000 2nd Indochina War (incl. Laos & Cambodia) 1960-75
10 2,500,000 Chinese Civil War 1945-49
11 2,100,000 German Expulsions after WW2 1945-47
12 1,900,000 Second Sudanese Civil War 1983-
13 1,700,000 Congolese Civil War 1998-
14 1,650,000 Cambodia: Khmer Rouge Regime 1975-79
15 1,400,000 Afghanistan: Civil War 1980-
15 1,400,000 Ethiopian Civil Wars 1962-92
17 1,250,000 Mexican Revolution 1910-20
18 1,250,000 East Pakistan: Massacres 1971
19 1,000,000 Iran-Iraq War 1980-88
19 1,000,000 Nigeria: Biafran revolt 1967-70
21 800,000 Mozambique: Civil War 1976-92
21 800,000 Rwandan Massacres 1994
23 650,000 French-Algerian War 1954-62
24 600,000 First Indochina War 1945-54
25 500,000 India-Pakistan Partition 1947
25 500,000 Indonesia: Massacre of Communists 1965-67
25 500,000 Angolan Civil War 1975-94
25 500,000 First Sudanese Civil War 1955-72
25 500,000 Decline of the Amazonian Indians 1900-99
30 365,000 Spanish Civil War 1936-39
31 350,000 Somalia: Civil War 1991-
? Unknown North Korea: Communist Regime 1948-
xodus
2004-04-10 21:28:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by => Vox Populi ©
1961 - Patrice Lumumba, Prime Minister of the Congo
You mention this twice, and it is well documented part of the
anti-American ideology. And yet IT IS TOTALLY FALSE!

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/doubleissue/mysteries/patrice.htm
"A killing in Congo"
Lumumba's death no longer seems a CIA plot

It turns out that the evil Belgians, in addition to eating lots of
chocolate, killed Lumumba.

Typical European murderers, they are.
Post by => Vox Populi ©
Post by => Vox Populi ©
1960 - PRESENT
AMERICAN ASSASSINATION OF PATRICE LUMUMBA AND SUPPORT OF STATE TERRORISM OF
THE PEOPLE OF THE CONGO/ZAIRE
From Killing Hope: U.S. Military and CIA Interventions Since WWII
In June 1960, Patrice Lumumba became the Congo's first prime minister after
independence from Belgium. But Belgium retained its vast mineral wealth in
Katanga province, prominent Eisenhower administration officials had
financial ties to the same wealth, and Lumumba, at Independence Day
ceremonies before a host of foreign dignitaries, called for the nation's
economic as well as its political liberation, and recounted a list of
injustices against the natives by the white owners of the country. The man
was obviously a "Communist." The poor man was obviously doomed.
Eleven days later, Katanga province seceded, in September, Lumumba was
dismissed by the president at the instigation of the United States, and in
January 1961 he was assassinated at the express request of [President]
Dwight Eisenhower. There followed several years of civil conflict and chaos
and the rise to power of Mobutu Sese Seko, a man not a stranger to the CIA.
Mobutu went on to rule the country for more than 30 years, with a level of
corruption and cruelty that shocked even his CIA handlers. The Zairian
people lived in abject poverty despite the plentiful natural wealth, while
Mobutu became a multibillionaire.
cliff
2004-04-09 00:31:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by xodus
Post by Clough
Post by => Vox Populi ©
So the Iraqis can hold the U$ invaders as "enemy combatants",
and blindfold them and move them to Syria or Somalia,
hold them incommunicado and allow/encourage the foreign
hosts to torture them for information ... just like the U$ does
with its "enemy combatants" ... right?
It would not be a good idea to send the Merikunt prisoners to Syria,
it would be far better to send them chains to Hamas and let them hold
them for as long as the Merikunts keep Islamic fighters prisoner in
That would be far better treatment than the treatment Americans
usually receive: torture, rape, decapitation, mutilation of the
corpse.
You stupid international-law-hating hypocrites don't seem to realize
that if the Arabs have abused human rights to the extent that they
have no threats left. They wantonly slaughter civilians, they
slaughtered civilians who were delivering food, now they are
threatening to burn Japanese alive. Tell me again about how much the
Arab barbarians respect the Geneva Convention.
Stupid hypocrites like you are the enemy of human rights for all!
The Iraqis are not at war. They are defending against invaders.
The Geneva Convention does not apply.
They slaughtered hired guns guarding food being delivered to the coalition.
The three Japanese they are holding now will not be harmed.
cliff
2004-04-08 12:05:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by => Vox Populi ©
So the Iraqis can hold the U$ invaders as "enemy combatants",
and blindfold them and move them to Syria or Somalia,
hold them incommunicado and allow/encourage the foreign
hosts to torture them for information ... just like the U$ does
with its "enemy combatants" ... right?
Al-Sadr aide says Iraqis have captured coalition soldiers
April 8, 2004
A top aide to the militant Iraqi cleric Moqtada al-Sadr said his supporters had
captured a number of soldiers from the US-led coalition during clashes currently
taking place across a large swath of Iraq.
"Some tribes have captured some occupation forces on the streets," Qays
al-Khazali told a news conference in the Shi'ite Muslim holy city of Najaf.
Time for another barbecue.
Post by => Vox Populi ©
He gave no further details. The news conference was broadcast by Lebanon's
al-Manar television station, mouthpiece of the Hizbollah group.
There was no immediate comment on the report from the command of US-led forces
in Baghdad.
Meanwhile, the White House called on Moqtada al-Sadr to turn himself in to
authorities to end the violence and said he will ultimately fail in his quest to
oust foreign forces from the country.
A judge in Iraq has issued an arrest warrant for Sadr in connection with the
2003 murder of another cleric who returned to the country.
He has denied any involvement in the incident.
The US-led coalition has not yet tried to bring in Sadr but has said it will do
so.
"He is seeking to use a violent power play to try to undermine democracy for the
Iraqi people, but he will not succeed," said White House spokesman Scott
McClellan.
"He could bring an end to some of the violence that's going on by turning
himself in."
For several days, US-led forces have been battling Shi'ite militants in Iraq and
incurring as well as inflicting heavy casualties.
At least 35 coalition soldiers and scores of Iraqis have been killed in the
fighting.
The US-backed Iraqi Governing Council discussed earlier today offering Sadr a
deal to not prosecute him for the alleged murder if he agreed to halt the
uprising.
Reuters
Rico Yungblud
2004-04-08 17:18:32 UTC
Permalink
cliff <***@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<aMGdnW3M8sYDoujdRVn-***@comcast.com>...
<snip>
Post by cliff
Time for another barbecue.
Yeah, by a 100kt airburst above Fulajascum Iraq.
Bigot
2004-04-08 17:29:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rico Yungblud
<snip>
Post by cliff
Time for another barbecue.
Yeah, by a 100kt airburst above Fulajascum Iraq.
That's a typical Yank attitude, tried it in Nam and what did it get you?
Pushing Hueys off the flat tops to prevent them turning turtle.
BWAHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
Rico Yungblud
2004-04-08 23:42:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bigot
Post by Rico Yungblud
<snip>
Post by cliff
Time for another barbecue.
Yeah, by a 100kt airburst above Fulajascum Iraq.
That's a typical Yank attitude, tried it in Nam and what did it get you?
Pushing Hueys off the flat tops to prevent them turning turtle.
BWAHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
There were not nukes used in Nam, but you probably didn't understand
that was what I was referring to anyway.
Bigot
2004-04-09 08:14:46 UTC
Permalink
Too right!
--
Oh! you are a card and no mistake Governor
Post by Rico Yungblud
Post by Bigot
Post by Rico Yungblud
<snip>
Post by cliff
Time for another barbecue.
Yeah, by a 100kt airburst above Fulajascum Iraq.
That's a typical Yank attitude, tried it in Nam and what did it get you?
Pushing Hueys off the flat tops to prevent them turning turtle.
BWAHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
There were not nukes used in Nam, but you probably didn't understand
that was what I was referring to anyway.
Courageous
2004-04-09 03:35:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rico Yungblud
Yeah, by a 100kt airburst above Fulajascum Iraq.
That's a typical Yank attitude, tried it in Nam and ...
Nothing nuclear was ever "tried in Nam," and there's
not a single conventional explosive anywhere near
100 *kilotons* of explosive power, don'tcha know.

C//
Bigot
2004-04-09 08:15:20 UTC
Permalink
--
Oh! you are a card and no mistake Governor
Post by Courageous
Post by Rico Yungblud
Yeah, by a 100kt airburst above Fulajascum Iraq.
That's a typical Yank attitude, tried it in Nam and ...
Nothing nuclear was ever "tried in Nam," and there's
not a single conventional explosive anywhere near
100 *kilotons* of explosive power, don'tcha know.
C//
Daisy cutters?
Courageous
2004-04-09 13:37:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bigot
Post by Courageous
Nothing nuclear was ever "tried in Nam," and there's
not a single conventional explosive anywhere near
100 *kilotons* of explosive power, don'tcha know./
Daisy cutters?
I believe those were 5000 pounds (i.e., 2.5 tons),
quite a bit less then 100,000 tons or 200 *million*
pounds. I guess you're probably getting an education
right about now as to why nuclear weapons are such
nasty mofos, right? :-)

C//
Bigot
2004-04-09 17:54:21 UTC
Permalink
--
Oh! you are a card and no mistake Governor
Post by Courageous
Post by Bigot
Post by Courageous
Nothing nuclear was ever "tried in Nam," and there's
not a single conventional explosive anywhere near
100 *kilotons* of explosive power, don'tcha know./
Daisy cutters?
I believe those were 5000 pounds (i.e., 2.5 tons),
quite a bit less then 100,000 tons or 200 *million*
pounds. I guess you're probably getting an education
right about now as to why nuclear weapons are such
nasty mofos, right? :-)
Not really:-), I'm just winding you up like a clock, but being a dumb
Americkunt you wouldn't see that:-))
Courageous
2004-04-09 23:08:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Courageous
I believe those were 5000 pounds (i.e., 2.5 tons),
quite a bit less then 100,000 tons or 200 *million*
pounds. I guess you're probably getting an education
right about now as to why nuclear weapons are such
nasty mofos, right? :-)
Not really:-), I'm just winding you up like a clock, ...
No, what you're doing is having a narcissistic fantasy,
and then shamefully spilling it in text to the entire
world, via usenet. By all means, do continue.

C//
Bigot
2004-04-10 10:12:17 UTC
Permalink
--
Oh! you are a card and no mistake Governor
Post by Courageous
Post by Courageous
I believe those were 5000 pounds (i.e., 2.5 tons),
quite a bit less then 100,000 tons or 200 *million*
pounds. I guess you're probably getting an education
right about now as to why nuclear weapons are such
nasty mofos, right? :-)
Not really:-), I'm just winding you up like a clock, ...
No, what you're doing is having a narcissistic fantasy,
and then shamefully (not shamefully, I'm never ashamed of anything I
do:-))spilling it in text to the entire
Post by Courageous
world, via usenet. By all means, do continue.
How nice to meet you!
An American with a sense of humour:-))
Better than old poe faced Shrub!
Rico Yungblud
2004-04-09 16:29:44 UTC
Permalink
"Bigot" <***@microshaft.com> wrote in message news:<c55m2m$2ofrdg$***@ID-229054.news.uni-berlin.de>...
<snip>
Post by Bigot
Post by Courageous
Nothing nuclear was ever "tried in Nam," and there's
not a single conventional explosive anywhere near
100 *kilotons* of explosive power, don'tcha know.
C//
Daisy cutters?
Nope. Daisy cutters are approx .020 kt .
=> Vox Populi ©
2004-04-10 04:29:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rico Yungblud
Post by Bigot
Post by Courageous
Nothing nuclear was ever "tried in Nam," and there's
not a single conventional explosive anywhere near
100 *kilotons* of explosive power, don'tcha know.
C//
Daisy cutters?
Nope. Daisy cutters are approx .020 kt .
The BLU-118/B is a penetrating warhead filled with an advanced thermobaric
explosive that, when detonated, generates higher sustained blast pressures in
confined spaces such as tunnels and underground facilities. The BLU-118/B uses
the same penetrator body as the standard BLU-109 weapon. The significant
difference is the replacement of the high explosive fill with a new thermobaric
explosive that provides increased lethality in confined spaces.

The BLU-118/B warhead uses a Fuze Munition Unit (FMU)-143J/B to initiate the
explosive. The FMU-143 fuze has been modified with a new booster and a
120-millisecond delay. All weapon guidance systems and employment options
currently used with the BLU-109 warhead are compatible with the new BLU-118/B
warhead. BLU-118/B payload candidates included PBXIH-135 [one of the Navy's new
insensitive polymer bonded explosives], HAS-13, or SFAE [solid fuel air
explosive] loaded into existing BLU-109 Weapon Bodies. Conventional high
explosives (CHE) are characterized by a sensitivity to mechanical or thermal
energy. Insensitive high explosives (IHE), on the other hand, require
extraordinarily high stimuli before violent reaction occurs. Insensitive
explosives reliably fulfil their performance, readiness and operational
requirements on demand, but the violence of response to unplanned hazardous
stimuli is restricted to an acceptable level. This means that when a munition is
in a fire, hit by a fragment, bullet or high velocity projectile or subject to
some other hazard the result will not be a detonation or a violent reaction of
the explosive and propellant; no more than severe burning will ocur [such a
deflagration is an exothermic reaction that occurs particle to particle at
subsonic speed]. Some insensitive explosives are known to react in a different
way to conventional explosives. For instance, detonation reactions are slower
but more energy is released in a way that has the potential to produce a lot
more damage.

Process Safety Progress (Vol.18, No.3) Winter 1999 235

Past accidents have demonstrated that vapor cloud explosions

(VCEs) are the most severe threat to refining and petrochemical

industries. In order to estimate the air blast parameters

at any given distance from a possible explosion source, a

variety of prediction methods have been developed. A brief

description of these prediction methods is first presented. Then,

the focus of this paper is on an engineering method based on

blast curves, which is the most frequently used pre d i c t i o n

m e t h o d .

Knowledge of blast effects from vapor cloud explosions has

g reatly improved due to the efforts of investigators in many

countries during the last three decades; however, blast curves

have not been reexamined. One of the aims of this paper is to

p resent a new set of blast curves which have been validated with

available experimental results and analytical solutions. Another

aim is to present a comprehensive set of blast curves including

blast parameters for both positive and negative phases.

The new blast curves, which are a modification of the Baker-

S t rehlow curves, improve the prediction for detonations and

supersonic deflagrations as well as for subsonic flames. By

changing the slope of the blast pre s s u re versus distance curve,

the overly conservative blast pre s s u re predictions by the pre v i o u s

B a k e r- S t rehlow curves at large standoff distances for detonations

and supersonic deflagrations are reduced. By clarifying

the labeling of the flame Mach number for each blast curve, the

overly conservative pre s s u re and impulse preditions for subsonic

flames are also avoided.

The new blast curves have been validated against VCE

experiments including detonations, fast deflagrations, and slow

deflagrations. Particular attention was given to large scale

deflagration experiments, which became available only re c e n tly.

Good agreement is shown between the new blast curves and

the experimental blast data for vapor cloud detonations and

subsonic deflagrations. For supersonic deflagrations, the blast

curve predictions are overly conservative in that blast pre s s u re

decays more rapidly with distance in experiments than the calculated

curves.

I N T RO D U C T I O N

Since the Flixborough disaster, which occurred in

June, 1974, it has been realized that the most severe

t h reat to chemical and petrochemical industries is the

hazard of vapor cloud explosions, which have been

the predominant causes of the largest losses in these

industries [1]. Unfortunately, these types of devastating

accidents still occur. The focus of this paper is on

the prediction of blast effects from vapor cloud explosions

because the air blast parameters at any given

distance from a possible explosion source must be

estimated in order to evaluate the risk associated with

a given installation or activity. Furtherm o re, with

p roper safety guidelines, appropriate structural design

and safe distancing considerations, blast hazards fro m

vapor cloud explosions may be reduced to acceptable

levels.

VAPOR CLOUD EXPLOSION BLAST PREDICTION METHODS

Blast prediction methods for vapor cloud explosions

(VCEs) may be grouped into three types of categories

according to their nature and complexity.

TNT Equivalence Method

It had been common practice for many years to comp

a re the air blast effects of a VCE with the blast from a

TNT charge. The available combustion energy in the

vapor cloud is converted into an equivalent charg e

weight of TNT. This approach was attractive since the

blast effects of TNT as a function of distance from the

explosion source are well known. However, case studies

revealed that there is almost no correlation between

the amount of fuel involved in a VCE and the total

quantity of fuel released and/or the yield. Reported

yield factors generally range from 0.1 to 10% with the

majority less than 1 to 2% according to accident investigations;

a limited number of higher yield values have

been reported. Various institutions have re c o m m e n d e d

markedly diff e rent of yield factor [2] values. A portion of

this spread in yield factor values is due to uncertanties

in the amount of fuel released. In addition, some investigators

have developed yield factors based on the total

amount of fuel released, whereas others have used only

that in the flammable range or even a portion of the

flammable range (i.e. that assumed to be capable of

supporting an explosion). However, a significant portion

of the spread in yield factor values is due to diff e rences

in the vapor cloud combustion mode. The major

drawback of the TNT equivalence method is that the

A New Set of Blast Curves from Va p o r

Cloud Explosion

M.J. Tang and Q.A. Baker

Wilfred Baker Engineering, Inc., 8700 Crownhill, Suite 310, San Antonio, Texas
78209

blast yield is only associated with the amount of fuel

involved and not the combustion mode.

It is now well understood that blast effects fro m

vapor cloud explosions are determined not only by the

amount of fuel burned, but more importantly by the

combustion mode of the cloud. A wide spectrum of

flame speeds may result from flame acceleration under

various confinement and congestion conditions in

industrial environments. In energy scaled coordinates,

the TNT blast re p resents a single curve, whereas the

blast waves generated by vapor cloud explosions are

re p resented by a family of curves corresponding to various

cloud combustion modes. Furtherm o re, there are

dramatic diff e rences between explosions involving

vapor clouds and high explosives at close distances; for

the same amount of energy, the high explosive blast

o v e r p re s s u re is much higher and the blast impulse is

much lower than that from a VCE [3].

Since control rooms and other blast resistant struct

u res on plant sites are usually located close to potential

explosions, we strongly recommend that the TNT

equivalence method not be used for close-in VCEs blast

load predictions. However, the TNT equivalence

method is reasonable for far-field predictions of VCE

o v e r p re s s u re except for very low flame speeds. Impulses

from TNT blast curves are generally over- p redicted in

the far field.

Methods Based on Blast Curves

The use of a gas charge explosion to replace the TNT

c h a rge detonation has greatly improved the accuracy of

VCE blast predictions. One-dimensional numerical studies

of gas change explosions were carried out by several

g roups of re s e a rchers using diff e rent numerical techniques,

which resulted in several sets of blast curves.

Among these, the most frequently used and widely

accepted are the Baker- S t rehlow [4] blast curves for

spherical free air explosions and TNO [5] blast curves

for hemispherical explosions.

The Baker- S t rehlow curves provide positive pre s s u re

and impulse as a function of distance. The pre s s u re ,

impulse and distance are non-dimensionalized u s i n g

Sach's scaling law as follows:

W h e re p0 i s atmospheric pre s s u re ;

a0 is acoustic velocity at ambient

c o n d i t i o n s ;

p is absolute peak pre s s u re ;

R i s s t a n d - o ff distance;

Et is total energy release from the

explosion sourc e ;

i is specific impulse.

Both overpre s s u re and impulse versus distance

relations are presented as a famies of curves, with the

flame speed diffentiating the curves within each family.

In the non-dimensional form, flame speed is the

only factor to determine the blast pre s s u re and

impulse at a given distance. A vapor cloud detonation

is, of course, the worst case and produces the most

severe blast effects.

The TNO curves consist of positive pre s s u re and

time duration as functions of distance. The parameters

w e re also non-dimensionalized using Sach's scaling

law with pre s s u re and distance as defined above, and

the positive phase duration as follows:

w h e re tt is the time duration of the positive phase.

Each curve in the TNO blast curve set is labeled by

the initial explosion strength, ranging from 1 to 10,

with 10 re p resenting the worst case of a vapor cloud

detonation.

In both Baker- S t rehlow and TNO methods, the

s o u rce energy is defined by a stoichiometric fuel/air

m i x t u re located within the confined and/or congested

region. The flame speed or initial explosion stre n g t h

is determined by empirical approaches based on the

d e g ree of confinement and obstruction within the

s o u rce region as well as the distance available for

flame acceleration [6-7]. As discussed above, onedimensional

numerical curves based on gas charg e s

p rovide a better re p resentation of VCE blast parameters

than the TNT equivalence method. However, the

one-dimensional curves are idealized symmetric re presentations

that cannot describe the impact of nonsymmetric

vapor cloud shape, the location of turbulence

generating obstacles, or the ignition location.

Nevertheless, by simplifying real world scenarios,

blast curve methods are still most frequently used as

the engineering tool.

The Detailed Numerical Simulations

The application of three-dimensional numerical

simulation based on computational fluid dynamics

(CFD) to model vapor cloud explosions has developed

rapidly during recent years. This approach has

the potential of providing higher accuracy and directly

a d d ressing the details of real world scenarios without

drastic simplifications; as a result, the empirical determination

of the flame speed can be avoided. Howeve

r, there are still significant difficulties in establishing

combustion models capable of accurately representing

the flame and flow field turbulence interactions in

order to correctly simulate the flame acceleration

process.

As a result of several intensive re s e a rch pro g r a m s ,

CFD codes are being developed and improved. Howe

v e r, the accuracy of a CFD simulation is limited by

the accuracy of the numerical method and the underlying

physical sub-models. Experimental validation is

critical because the model employed to simulate the

positive feedback loop for turbulent combustion re l y

to a great extent on empirical coefficients. There f o re ,

the application of any computer code for the detailed

numerical VCE modeling should be limited to the type

of problems for which the code has been validated by

experiments. Also, a number of variables, such as grid

and time resolution, have significant effects on the

results, hence a high level of user exper tise is

required. It should also be noted that this type of sim-

236 Winter 1999 Process Safety Progress (Vol.18, No.4)

P = p - p0

p0

i = ia0

Et

1/3p0

2 /3 R = R

( Et / p0 )1/3

P= p - po

po

R= R

( Et /po )1/3 t+ = t+a0

( E/ p0 )1/3

Process Safety Progress (Vol.18, No.3) Winter 1999 237

ulation may also re q u i re a significant amount of time

to setup and execute: this is particularly re l e v a n t

where a number of scenarios must be investigated.

I M P ROVEMENTS TO THE BA K E R - S T R E H L OW BLAST CURVES

As discussed above, although detailed numerical

methods are being developed, there is still a gre a t

need for less complex approaches which can be used

on a routine basis to predict VCE blast effects for a

l a rge number of scenarios. The type of detailed information

re q u i red for CFD modeling may not be available.

Furtherm o re, the requisite experimental validation

is not available for many cases. More o v e r, blast

curve methods are comparatively cost effective and

easy to use. Therefore, concurrent with promoting the

development of sophisticated CFD numerical simulations,

ef for ts have been under taken by WBE to

improve the one-dimensional blast curves.

Two basic improvements have been made to the

B a k e r- S t rehlow blast curves. The first is a change in

the slope of blast pressure decay curve that resulted in

a considerable reduction of the predicted blast pre ss

u re at large standoff distances for supersonic flames.

The other is a clarification in the labeling of the individual

blast curves that resulted in a nearly two-fold

decrease of blast pressure and impulse at all distances

for subsonic flames. Here, the terms "supersonic" and

"subsonic" refer to the flame Mach numbers with

respect to the ambient sound velocity.

The comparison of the blast curves obtained by several

numerical methods showed that the Baker-

S t rehlow supersonic curves decay too slowly in the far

field and depart significantly from the other curves [8-9]

in this range. Actually, the numerical calculation associated

with the original Baker- S t rehlow curve was only

carried out to scaled distance of about two and was

extrapolated to ten. The TNO curves give higher blast

p re s s u res at close distances, but decay more rapidly to

p rovide the lowest blast pre s s u res at medium and far

distances.

The new blast curves were obtained by optimizing

the numerical calculations. They are denoted as the

B a k e r- S t re h l o w - Tang blast curves in order to distinguish

them from the previous Baker- S t rehlow curves.

The Baker- S t re h l o w - Tang curves are similar to other

numerical results, but still conservative in that a comparatively

slow blast wave decay is maintained.

The other improvement in the Baker- S t re h l o w -

Tang curves relative to the Baker- S t rehlow curves is

the labeling of each blast curve. The previous Baker-

S t rehlow curves were labeled by Mw, which refers to

the velocity of heat addition in the numerical calculations

in a Lagrangian coordinate system. However, the

flame speed, Mf, measured in experiments is the

velocity relative to a fixed observer (i.e., the velocity

in an Eulerian coordinate system). As a consequence,

a misuse of the blast curve often occurs due to the

m i s i n t e r p retation of the flame Mach numbers. Nearly

twice of the blast overpre s s u re is predicted when an

empir ical flame speed is used to select the blast

curves for subsonic flames labeled according to Mw.

The blast curves obtained by one-dimensional

numerical calculations, such as the Baker- S t re h l o w

and TNO curves, were published in 1970's and have

since been frequently used in a variety of plant safety

applications. However, since systematic experimental

data became available only in recently years, they

have not been validated by experiments. As part of

this work, the Baker- S t re h l o w - Tang curves were validated

by experiments. The validation was carried out

in three diff e rent combustion mode regimes: vapor

cloud detonation, supersonic deflagration and subsonic

deflagration. The primary sources of experimental

data for VCE detonation are the publications by

B rossard et al. [10] and the empirical equations summarized

by Dorofeev [11]. The experimental data used

in the comparison for supersonic and subsonic vapor

cloud deflagrations were taken from the MERGE

(Modeling and Experimental Research into Gas Explosions)

[12] and EMERGE (Extended Modeling and

Experimental Research into Gas Explosions) [13] summary

reports. The validation comparisons were presented

in previous papers [9, 14] and are omitted here

for the sake of brevity.

R E L ATIONSHIP BETWEEN FLAME VELOCITIES

The following relationship between Ms u and Mf i s

derived from the mass conservation for low flame

velocities:

where Mf is apparent flame Mach number

relative to a fixed observer

(flame speed)

Msu is flame Mach number relative to the

moving gas ahead of the flame

(burning velocity;

rb are gas densities behind (burnt)

ru and ahead of the flame

unburnt), respectively;

The Mach number, Mw, refers to the Lagrangian

velocity of the heat addition in numerical calculations

and a correction factor to relate Mw and Ms u w a s

derived by Stehlow and Luckritz [4] is given below:

Thus, the relation between Mw and Mf is:

The above relations are invalid when Mf a p p ro a c h e s

unity. For supersonic flames, Mf = Mw. For near sonic

flames, the relationship between Mf and Mw was established

by using the approximate equation for the apparent

flame Mach number and the overpre s s u re at the

flame front. Assuming an expansion ratio, a = (rb /ru) of

7 for stoichiometric mixtures of commonly used hydrocarbon

- air mixtures and a specific heat ratio of 1.4

(ambient air), this equation can be written as:

Mf = ( u / b)Msu

Msu = ( b / u )2/3 Mw

Mf = ( u / b)1/3Mw

pmax - p0

p0

= 2.4

Mf

2

1+ Mf

(1)

(2)

(3)

w h e re pm a x is the maximum pre s s u re at the flame

f ront. Although the above equation was derived fro m

acoustic theory [15], comparison with experimental

m e a s u rements shows that it is valid for a wide range

of flame speeds [16]. The pro c e d u re employed was to

d e t e rmine the maximum overpre s s u re for a range of

Mw values of by numerical calculations. Then, Mf w a s

calculated for a given pm a x using equation (3). The

p revious Baker- S t rehlow curves were labeled by Mw

while the new Baker- S t re h l o w - Tang curves are

labeled by Mf. Table 1 presents the re l a t i o n s h i p s

among Mw, Mf and the scaled value of pmax.

P R E S E N TATION OF THE BA K E R - S T R E H L OW- TANG CURV E S

The families of blast curves for the positive and

negative overpre s s u re, positive and negative impulse,

arrival time of the shock front and the maximum particle

velocity versus distance for a spectrum of flame

Mach numbers are presented in Figures 1 - 6. The

blast curves for negative phase parameters are included

in this presentation due to the importance of negative

phase blast loading on structure response. A brief

discussion of the blast curves characteristics in diff e rent

flame speed regimes is presented in the following

sections:

Detonation and Fast Deflagrations

As can be seen from Figures 1 and 2, the overpre ss

u re versus distance curves merge into a single curve

for various flame speeds in the supersonic regime for

locations outside the vapor cloud. The overpre s s u re s

inside the vapor cloud are nearly uniform and the

p re s s u re increases with the flame speed for positive

o v e r p re s s u re. As can be seen by comparing Figures 1

and 2 the negative overpre s s u re (absolute value)

never exceeds the positive overpre s s u re for supersonic

flames. This generalization does not hold true for

subsonic flames.

The impulse versus distance curves for the supersonic

regime also merge outside the cloud, as shown

in Figures 3 and 4. The highest flame speed (detona-

238 Winter 1999 Process Safety Progress (Vol.18, No.4)

TABLE 1. Mf and Mw Relations

Mw Mf Pmax

0.037 0.07 0.010

0.074 0.12 0.028

0.125 0.19 0.070

0.250 0.35 0.218

0.500 0.70 0.680

0.750 1.00 1.240

1.000 1.40 2.000

FIGURE 1. Positive Overpressure vs. Distance for Various

Flame Speeds

FIGURE 2. Negative Overpressure vs. Distance for Various

Flame Speeds

FIGURE 4. Negative Impulse vs. Distance for Various

Flame Speeds

FIGURE 3. Positive Impulse vs. Distance for Various Flame

Speeds

Process Safety Progress (Vol.18, No.3) Winter 1999 239

tion with Mf = 5.2) generated the lowest positive

impulse inside the cloud. The negative impulse versus

distance curves for various flame speeds in the supersonic

regime merge at all distances. The magnitude of

the negative impulse is comparable with that of the

positive impulse for locations outside the combustion

zone (about R/(EPo)1/3 > 0.4).

Good agreement between numerical calculations

and experimental measurements was achieved for the

detonation mode [ 9,14], as expected. In the detonation

experiments, a strong ignition at the cloud center

was applied which resulted in a detonation involving

the entire cloud. In the numerical calculations, constant

flame propagation at the maximum flame speed

is assumed, which provides a good simulation of the

detonation experiments.

Although the detonation combustion mode, which

p roduces the most severe damage, is extre m e l y

unlikely to occur, fast deflagrations of the cloud can

result from flame acceleration under confined and

congested conditions in industrial environments. A

comparison was made between the EMERGE experimental

data and the Baker- S t re h l o w - Tang blast pre ss

u res in the supersonic deflagration regime [14]. The

decay of the experimental blast pre s s u res is much

faster than the calculations in this regime. This may be

explained by the fact that a constant flame speed at

the maximum value was used in the calculations,

w h e reas in the experiments a large portion of the

cloud burned at very low velocities before the flame

accelerated to the maximum speed. There f o re, the

fraction of the source energy released at a rate suff iciently

high to support the shock wave is much less in

the experiments than in the calculations. This arg ument

is supported by the fact that the deviation of

experimental data from the calculated blast curve is

more pronounced for less reactive mixtures, for which

flame acceleration is slower than with more re a c t i v e

fuels.

Sonic Deflagrations

For a VCE with a flame Mach number close to

unity, the overpre s s u recurves merge into a single

curve outside the vapor cloud, the magnitude of

which is only marginally below the supersonic curve

(see Figure 1). This can be explained by the shock

f o rmation due to a piston moving at subsonic speed.

In fact, the blast waves produced by sonic flames

have the features of a shock wave that decays faster

than the acoustic waves generated by subsonic

flames. The comparison of the blast curves with

experimental data in the sonic regime is similar to that

in supersonic regime. The decay of the experimental

p re s s u res is also much faster than the calculations in

this regime.

Subsonic Deflagrations

Unlike the blast waves generated by supersonic

and sonic flames the pre s s u re versus distance curves

p roduced by slow subsonic flames do not merge. The

flame propagation speed has a significant influence

on the blast parameters both inside and outside the

s o u rce volume. The fact that the blast curves for various

flame speeds are nearly parallel indicates that the

blast waves produced by slow subsonic flames (Mf

less than 0.7 or Mw less than 0.5) follow the acoustic

decay law and the decay rate is not influenced by the

flame speed.

Good agreement was found between the numerical

results, analytical solution by acoustic theory, and

experimental data in the subsonic regime. According

to the acoustic solution, the overpre s s u re is inversely

p roportional to the distance. Thus, the inverse-radius

law, can be used to extend the blast curves to far distances.

C O N C L U S I O N S

A newly developed set of VCE blast curves provides

an improved re p resentation of blast parameters

in both the positive and negative phases. Labeling of

the curves has been modifed to allow direct use of

empirical flame speed data to select a blast curve. Validation

against VCE experiments has shown good

a g reement in the supersonic and subsonic re g i m e s ,

and conservative predictions in the sonic deflagration

regime.

FIGURE 5. Arrival Time vs. Distance for Various Flame

Speeds

FIGURE 6. Maximum Particle Velocity vs. Distance for

Various Flame Speeds

L I T E R ATURE CITED

1. L e n o i r, E.M. and J.A. Davenport, "A Survey of

Vapor Cloud Explosions-Second Update", 2 6 t h

Loss Prevention Symposium, AIChE, 1992

2. "Guidelines For Evaluating The Characteristics Of

Vapor Cloud Explosions, Flash Fires, And

B L AVEs", Center For Chemical Process Safety,

AIChE, 1994

3. B a k e r, Q.A. and W. E . B a k e r, " P ros and Cons of

TNT Equivalence for Industrial Explosion Accidents",

P roceedings of the International Conference

and Workshop on Modeling and Mitigating

the Consequences of Accidental Releases of Hazardous

Materials, May, 1991

4. S t rehlow, R.A. R.T. Luckritz, A.A. Adamczyk

and S.A. Shimp,"The Blast Wave Generated By

Spherical Flames", COMBUSTION AND FLAME, 3 5 :

297-310, 1979

5. van den Berg, A.C. "The Multi-Energy Method -

A Framework For Vapor Cloud Explosion Blast

Prediction", J. of Hazard Materials, 12, 1-10, 1985

6. B a k e r, Q.A. M.J.Tang, E.Scheier and G.J.Silva,

" Vapor Cloud Explosion Analysis", 28th Loss Prevention

Symposium, AIChE, April, 1994

7. B a k e r, Q.A. C.M. Doolittle, G.A.Fitzgerald and

M . J . Ta n g , "Recent Developments in the Baker-

S t rehlow VCE Analysis Methodology", 31th Loss

Prevention Symposium, AIChE, March, 1997

8. Tang, M.J and Baker, Q.A., " P redicting Blast

E ffects From Fast Flames", 32th Loss Pre v e n t i o n

Symposium, AIChE March 1998

9. Tang, M.J., Cao, C.Y.,and Baker, Q.A., " B l a s t

E ffects From Vapor Cloud Explosions", I n t e rn ational

Loss Prevention Symposium, B e rgen, Norway,

June 1996

10. J. Bro s s a rd, S. Hendrickx, J.L. Garn i e r, A. Lannoy

and J.L. Perro t ,"Air Blast From Unconfined

Gaseous Detonations", Proceedings of the 9th

I n t e rnational Colloquium on Dynamics of Explosion

and Reactive Systems", The American Institute

of Aeronautics and Astronautics, Inc., 1984

11. D o rofeev, S.B."Blast Effects Of Confined And

Unconfined Explosions", P roceedings Of The 20th

International Symposium On Shock Waves, 1995

12. M e rcx, W. P. M , "Modeling and Experimental

R e s e a rch into Gas Explosions", Overall final

report of the MERGE project

13. M e rcx, W. P.M. N.R. Popat and H. Linga,

"Experiments to Investigate the Influence of an

Initial Turbulence Field on the Explosion

Process", Final Summary Report for EMERGE

14. Tang, M. J, Baker, Q. A, "Comparison of Blast

Curves from Vapor Cloud Explosions", Pro c e e dings

of the International Symposium on Hazards,

P revention and Mitigation of Industrial Explosions"

Schaumburg, Illinois, USA, September, 1998

15. Ta y l o r, G.I. , "The ai r wave sur rounding an

expanding sphere", Proc. Roy. Soc. London, Series

A, 186:273-292, 1946

16. Harrison, A. J. and J.A Eyre , "The effect of

Obstacle Arrays on the combustion of Large premixed

Gas/air clouds, "Combustion Science and

Technology," Vol.52. March 1987.

This paper (29e) was presented at the 33rd Loss Pre ve n t i o n

Symposium held during the AIChE Spring National Me e t i n g

in Houston, Texas, March 14-18, 1999

240 Winter 1999 Process Safety Progress (Vol.18, No.4)
--
"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our
number one priority and we will not rest until we find him."
~ George Bush Jr. 2001-09-13

"I don't know where he (bin Laden) is. I have no idea and I really
don't care.
It's not that important. It's not our priority."
~ George Bush Jr. 2002-03-13
=> Vox Populi ©
2004-04-08 21:02:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rico Yungblud
Post by cliff
Time for another barbecue.
Yeah, by a 100kt airburst above Fulajascum Iraq.
Bring 'em on, coward.
--
"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our
number one priority and we will not rest until we find him."
~ George Bush Jr. 2001-09-13

"I don't know where he (bin Laden) is. I have no idea and I really
don't care.
It's not that important. It's not our priority."
~ George Bush Jr. 2002-03-13
Rico Yungblud
2004-04-09 16:10:58 UTC
Permalink
"=> Vox Populi ©" <***@popu.li> wrote in message news:<A3jdc.127$***@news.uswest.net>...
<snip>
Post by => Vox Populi ©
Bring 'em on, coward.
--
"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our
number one priority and we will not rest until we find him."
~ George Bush Jr. 2001-09-13
"I don't know where he (bin Laden) is. I have no idea and I really don't care.
It's not that important. It's not our priority."
~ George Bush Jr. 2002-03-13
If it were up to me, would already be a done deal. Good thing I'm not
POTUS, eh?

What's with the name calling? (coward).

Seems to me the cowards are the ones who strap explosives onto their
women/children and launch them as weapons, or hide behind them as
shields.

I may be a coward, or not, but what does me wanting to rid the world
of Falujascum have to do with that? Do you live there or something?
Are you cheering on the mobs and militias?
strabo
2004-04-09 23:43:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rico Yungblud
<snip>
Post by => Vox Populi ©
Bring 'em on, coward.
--
"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our
number one priority and we will not rest until we find him."
~ George Bush Jr. 2001-09-13
"I don't know where he (bin Laden) is. I have no idea and I really don't care.
It's not that important. It's not our priority."
~ George Bush Jr. 2002-03-13
If it were up to me, would already be a done deal. Good thing I'm not
POTUS, eh?
What's with the name calling? (coward).
Seems to me the cowards are the ones who strap explosives onto their
women/children and launch them as weapons, or hide behind them as
shields.
Don't worry, they're volunteers. Its a popular war of resistance
and retaliation.

How far will you go to free your country?
Post by Rico Yungblud
I may be a coward, or not, but what does me wanting to rid the world
of Falujascum have to do with that?
You probably aren't a coward but you are interfering with other
people's lives, bigtime.

"Falujascum" are none of this country's business. It's their
religion and their government. Stay out of it.

If a country declares war on us and attacks our shores its
another story.

No, neither the "Falujascum" nor the Iraqis attacked the WTC.

No, we don't kill people just because they *might* do something.
Post by Rico Yungblud
Do you live there or something?
Are you cheering on the mobs and militias?
Rico Yungblud
2004-04-10 15:54:39 UTC
Permalink
strabo <***@flashmail.com> wrote in message news:<***@4ax.com>...
<snip>
Post by strabo
Post by Rico Yungblud
Seems to me the cowards are the ones who strap explosives onto their
women/children and launch them as weapons, or hide behind them as
shields.
Don't worry, they're volunteers. Its a popular war of resistance
and retaliation.
How far will you go to free your country?
IMAO they are not trying to "free" their country. They want the US to
leave so they can set up another tyranny, only they want to be in
charge this time.

Hmmm... I'm going off on a tangent here...I only tentatively support
the current "war", and my only real complaint is that it does not
progress faster as a real war instead of trying to do the lame
global-police-regime-change blah blah ad nauseaum crap. Conquer them,
pacify them, rebuild them in our image, and then leave.
Post by strabo
Post by Rico Yungblud
I may be a coward, or not, but what does me wanting to rid the world
of Falujascum have to do with that?
You probably aren't a coward but you are interfering with other
people's lives, bigtime.
Yeah, war does that. It's not about winning hearts and minds, its
about leaving them bleeding on the pavement.
Post by strabo
"Falujascum" are none of this country's business. It's their
religion and their government. Stay out of it.
If a country declares war on us and attacks our shores its
another story.
No, neither the "Falujascum" nor the Iraqis attacked the WTC.
No, we don't kill people just because they *might* do something.
Ok, I've posted this elsewhere as far as why I tentatively support
this war, so here goes again. At least you're not calling me names
just cuz' you don't like my opinion.

The gov't has told big lies about every
war/police-action/nation-building yada-ad-nauseum the US has ever been
involved with. How much it bothers you will ultimately depend on your
political biases regarding whichever regime was in charge at the time.

What I can't figure out is what the truth is and why they thought the
lies would be better received.

I don't know for sure, but I think the truth would have went something
like this:

"Islamic terrorists, based and funded by various gov'ts and groups
from the ME have just successfully attacked mainland US killing
thousands of Americans (something the nazi's and imperial japanese
never did). We now need to go kick some major ass. In order to do
this, we're gonna have to use a large hammer to bonk some large heads.
We need a base of operations closer to nests of the rabid dogs who
did this, so we're gonna go occupy the necessary real-estate until all
the head bonking is done."

That would have suited me fine. What I can't figure out is why
Afganistan wasn't enough. Maybe Iraq's location is strategically
better suited for all the head bonking, I dunnoh.
strabo
2004-04-14 21:47:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rico Yungblud
<snip>
Post by strabo
Post by Rico Yungblud
Seems to me the cowards are the ones who strap explosives onto their
women/children and launch them as weapons, or hide behind them as
shields.
Don't worry, they're volunteers. Its a popular war of resistance
and retaliation.
How far will you go to free your country?
IMAO they are not trying to "free" their country. They want the US to
leave so they can set up another tyranny, only they want to be in
charge this time.
And who are "they"? Even the dominant sect is split by tribal
affiliations.

Yes, there are Islamic radicals that would use religion as an
excuse for control. For them only a theocracy will suffice. There
are also Iraqis that happen to be muslims that know the folly of
trying to micromanage society and don't want the boot of
oppression on their necks. Iraq was the least religious of the ME
states.

Remember that Saddam did not operate in a vacuum. He was a
dictator but not a fool. He was essentially an atheist who
ran a secular government and left local tribal and religious
matters alone unless they posed a threat to his power.

That's what the Iraqis are accustomed to. Iraq was the most
developed and successful of all the ME states.

If left to their own devices the Iraqis could either:

- split their state into several contained factions
each headed by tribal leaders and mullahs;

- after a year or so of selective infighting, would establish a
central government with a non-religious agenda to concentrate
on utilities and transportation and leaving alone local
matters.

I think the latter is more likely since for fifty years modern
conveniences have become necessities and the advantages of
cooperation have proven useful.
Post by Rico Yungblud
Hmmm... I'm going off on a tangent here...I only tentatively support
the current "war", and my only real complaint is that it does not
progress faster as a real war instead of trying to do the lame
global-police-regime-change blah blah ad nauseaum crap. Conquer them,
pacify them, rebuild them in our image, and then leave.
"conquer them, pacify them, rebuild them in our image, and then
leave" - is that possible? Those preeminent controllers, the
Romans, didn't think so. The Catholic attempt to remake the world
in its image failed. The British failed.

The process of conquering and pacifying kills off natural leaders
and intellectuals leaving a humiliated and demoralized people who
will only infect their children with emotions of revenge. It's a
great way to create terrorists.
Post by Rico Yungblud
Post by strabo
Post by Rico Yungblud
I may be a coward, or not, but what does me wanting to rid the world
of Falujascum have to do with that?
You probably aren't a coward but you are interfering with other
people's lives, bigtime.
Yeah, war does that. It's not about winning hearts and minds, its
about leaving them bleeding on the pavement.
Post by strabo
"Falujascum" are none of this country's business. It's their
religion and their government. Stay out of it.
If a country declares war on us and attacks our shores its
another story.
No, neither the "Falujascum" nor the Iraqis attacked the WTC.
No, we don't kill people just because they *might* do something.
Ok, I've posted this elsewhere as far as why I tentatively support
this war, so here goes again. At least you're not calling me names
just cuz' you don't like my opinion.
The gov't has told big lies about every
war/police-action/nation-building yada-ad-nauseum the US has ever been
involved with. How much it bothers you will ultimately depend on your
political biases regarding whichever regime was in charge at the time.
OK
Post by Rico Yungblud
What I can't figure out is what the truth is and why they thought the
lies would be better received.
Insanity is not rational.
Post by Rico Yungblud
I don't know for sure, but I think the truth would have went something
"Islamic terrorists, based and funded by various gov'ts and groups
from the ME have just successfully attacked mainland US killing
thousands of Americans (something the nazi's and imperial japanese
never did).
Though they did try.
Post by Rico Yungblud
We now need to go kick some major ass. In order to do
this, we're gonna have to use a large hammer to bonk some large heads.
We need a base of operations closer to nests of the rabid dogs who
did this, so we're gonna go occupy the necessary real-estate until all
the head bonking is done."
That would have suited me fine. What I can't figure out is why
Afganistan wasn't enough. Maybe Iraq's location is strategically
better suited for all the head bonking, I dunnoh.
And so the administration invaded and occupied the country with
the most visible military targets. And after ten years (the
minimum time projected for intense US management of ME states)
and a million bodies there will still be a billion more potential
terrorists.

You may as well seek the devil and defeat him. The Catholic
church managed to ride that horse for several hundred years.

Face it. The administration's agenda is long term contracts
for military/industrial corporations and political control.
Modern terrorism is a means to the end.

The cynic in me gets a kick out of the presumption that modern
terrorism can be fought as an enemy, that a war on terrorism is
somehow analogous to WWII.

Terrorism is an attitude. Modern terrorism is a dark side of
the projection of global power.

Terrorism on this scale is a symptom of wide spread, deep seated
hatred and resentment. Humans by nature are lazy. The more
comfortable and secure, the more humans like it. It takes a lot
of motivation to give up creature comforts and decide to go out
and commit suicide.

Modern terrorism cuts across national boundaries and religions.
Its generated by resentment and a lack of future and guided by
symbols. There is no single head or locus. As you identify and
attack one, another pops up.

The only way to address terrorism is to remove the causes,
protect yourself and wait a generation for the infected
to die off.
Rico Yungblud
2004-04-15 17:19:24 UTC
Permalink
strabo <***@flashmail.com> wrote in message news:<***@4ax.com>...
<snip>
Post by strabo
Post by Rico Yungblud
Hmmm... I'm going off on a tangent here...I only tentatively support
the current "war", and my only real complaint is that it does not
progress faster as a real war instead of trying to do the lame
global-police-regime-change blah blah ad nauseaum crap. Conquer them,
pacify them, rebuild them in our image, and then leave.
"conquer them, pacify them, rebuild them in our image, and then
leave" - is that possible? Those preeminent controllers, the
Romans, didn't think so. The Catholic attempt to remake the world
in its image failed. The British failed.
The process of conquering and pacifying kills off natural leaders
and intellectuals leaving a humiliated and demoralized people who
will only infect their children with emotions of revenge. It's a
great way to create terrorists.
Ok, here is where I say "worked for the Nazi's and Imperial Japanese",
and you say "that was different", but never satisfactorally explain
(IMAO) why. Yawn...

The big important difference I see is that we have yet to decisively
defeat the enemy. We've pulled back the hammer too quickly. March
on, conquor, nuke, whatever it takes to have all the ME governments
grovelling and begging for us to stop. Unconditional surrender, then
put the kid gloves on and play good-cop for a while.
Post by strabo
Post by Rico Yungblud
Post by strabo
Post by Rico Yungblud
I may be a coward, or not, but what does me wanting to rid the world
of Falujascum have to do with that?
You probably aren't a coward but you are interfering with other
people's lives, bigtime.
The intereferred with my/out lives bigtime on 9/11.

<snip>

<snip>
Post by strabo
Post by Rico Yungblud
We now need to go kick some major ass. In order to do
this, we're gonna have to use a large hammer to bonk some large heads.
We need a base of operations closer to nests of the rabid dogs who
did this, so we're gonna go occupy the necessary real-estate until all
the head bonking is done."
That would have suited me fine. What I can't figure out is why
Afganistan wasn't enough. Maybe Iraq's location is strategically
better suited for all the head bonking, I dunnoh.
And so the administration invaded and occupied the country with
the most visible military targets. And after ten years (the
minimum time projected for intense US management of ME states)
and a million bodies there will still be a billion more potential
terrorists.
We will have the base and infrastructure in place for dealing with the
terrorists up close and personal. May there be a billion *dead*
terrorists for all I care.
Post by strabo
You may as well seek the devil and defeat him. The Catholic
church managed to ride that horse for several hundred years.
Face it. The administration's agenda is long term contracts
for military/industrial corporations and political control.
Modern terrorism is a means to the end.
Pax Americana is better than Pax Al-Queda any day.
Post by strabo
The cynic in me gets a kick out of the presumption that modern
terrorism can be fought as an enemy, that a war on terrorism is
somehow analogous to WWII.
Don't look too close at WWII, you may find something dark and nasty
about the US involvement, and failure to prevent it when it was
possible.

<snip>
Post by strabo
The only way to address terrorism is to remove the causes,
protect yourself and wait a generation for the infected
to die off.
Yeah, had we handled the end of WWI better, there would have been no
Hitler, Nazi Germany etc.

Too late, politics/compromise/appeasement has failed, and now we have
a nasty war to wage, let's wage it hard and fast. Again, if it's a
choice between Pax Americana and Pax Islam/al-whoever, I'll take the
first one thank you.

Clough
2004-04-08 22:29:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rico Yungblud
<snip>
Post by cliff
Time for another barbecue.
Yeah, by a 100kt airburst above Fulajascum Iraq.
You Amerikunts are so stupid it is ridiculous. You've gotten too big
for your boots again and it's time for another Amerikunt ass roasting.

Welcome to Vietnam 2.

Clough
cliff
2004-04-09 00:16:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clough
Post by Rico Yungblud
<snip>
Post by cliff
Time for another barbecue.
Yeah, by a 100kt airburst above Fulajascum Iraq.
You Amerikunts are so stupid it is ridiculous. You've gotten too big
for your boots again and it's time for another Amerikunt ass roasting.
Welcome to Vietnam 2.
Clough
All we need is the draft. It's not an ass roasting until the chicken
hawk's children return in body bags.
Clough
2004-04-09 05:38:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by cliff
All we need is the draft. It's not an ass roasting until the chicken
hawk's children return in body bags.
No chance. Do you really think the sons of the rich and powerful will
get drafted to Iraq?

Daddy will pull strings to keep sonny safely at home, just like Bush
senior did with little chickenhawk Georgie.

Won't it be nice sitting in a rat hole in Iraq getting your balls shot
off and knowing all the little rich boys are safely at home laughing
at you.

Clough
cliff
2004-04-09 20:57:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clough
Post by cliff
All we need is the draft. It's not an ass roasting until the chicken
hawk's children return in body bags.
No chance. Do you really think the sons of the rich and powerful will
get drafted to Iraq?
The children of the rich won't have to go, but there are a lot of people
who aren't rich, that support this war. Their children will have no
choice but to go. This is good enough for me.
I'll be voting Bush to ensure the draft is implemented.
Post by Clough
Daddy will pull strings to keep sonny safely at home, just like Bush
senior did with little chickenhawk Georgie.
Won't it be nice sitting in a rat hole in Iraq getting your balls shot
off and knowing all the little rich boys are safely at home laughing
at you.
Clough
People have not learned the from the Vietnam war. We need a reminder.
ZZBunker
2004-04-08 21:32:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by => Vox Populi ©
So the Iraqis can hold the U$ invaders as "enemy combatants",
and blindfold them and move them to Syria or Somalia,
hold them incommunicado and allow/encourage the foreign
hosts to torture them for information ... just like the U$ does
with its "enemy combatants" ... right?
No. The American invaders, since they are invaders
will invade Syria, or Cuba, and kill as many of them and UN
collataral causualties as we can find.
=> Vox Populi ©
2004-04-09 05:24:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by ZZBunker
Post by => Vox Populi ©
So the Iraqis can hold the U$ invaders as "enemy combatants",
and blindfold them and move them to Syria or Somalia,
hold them incommunicado and allow/encourage the foreign
hosts to torture them for information ... just like the U$ does
with its "enemy combatants" ... right?
No. The American invaders, since they are invaders
will invade Syria, or Cuba, and kill as many of them and UN
collataral causualties as we can find.
And you'll still be jerking off on your couch like
the cowardly chickenhawk that you are.
--
"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our
number one priority and we will not rest until we find him."
~ George Bush Jr. 2001-09-13

"I don't know where he (bin Laden) is. I have no idea and I really
don't care.
It's not that important. It's not our priority."
~ George Bush Jr. 2002-03-13
Daniel
2004-04-09 00:42:47 UTC
Permalink
You fool, there have not been any soldiers captured....
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