Discussion:
THE TEN COMMANDMENTS, CORRECTLY TRANSLATED IN LATIN AND ENGLISH
(too old to reply)
Bill McGinnis
2003-11-09 05:23:02 UTC
Permalink
The Ten Commandments, As Recorded The Bible, Exodus 20:1-17
Latin Vulgate And English Revised Standard Version (RSV)

1 locutus quoque est Dominus cunctos sermones hos

And God spoke all these words, saying,


2 ego sum Dominus Deus tuus qui eduxi te de terra Aegypti de domo
servitutis

"I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt,
out of the house of bondage.


3 non habebis deos alienos coram me

"You shall have no other gods before me.


4 non facies tibi sculptile neque omnem similitudinem quae est in caelo
desuper et quae in terra deorsum nec eorum quae sunt in aquis sub
terra

"You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of
anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or
that is in the water under the earth;


5 non adorabis ea neque coles ego sum Dominus Deus tuus fortis zelotes
visitans iniquitatem patrum in filiis in tertiam et quartam
generationem eorum qui oderunt me

you shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the LORD your God
am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the
children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me,


6 et faciens misericordiam in milia his qui diligunt me et custodiunt
praecepta mea

but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep
my commandments.


7 non adsumes nomen Domini Dei tui in vanum nec enim habebit insontem
Dominus eum qui adsumpserit nomen Domini Dei sui frustra

"You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain; for the
LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain.


8 memento ut diem sabbati sanctifices

"Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.


9 sex diebus operaberis et facies omnia opera tua

Six days you shall labor, and do all your work;


10 septimo autem die sabbati Domini Dei tui non facies omne opus tu et
filius tuus et filia tua servus tuus et ancilla tua iumentum tuum et
advena qui est intra portas tuas

but the seventh day is a sabbath to the LORD your God; in it you
shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your
manservant, or your maidservant, or your cattle, or the sojourner
who is within your gates;


11 sex enim diebus fecit Dominus caelum et terram et mare et omnia quae
in eis sunt et requievit in die septimo idcirco benedixit Dominus
diei sabbati et sanctificavit eum

for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all
that is in them, and rested the seventh day; therefore the LORD
blessed the sabbath day and hallowed it


12 honora patrem tuum et matrem tuam ut sis longevus super terram quam
Dominus Deus tuus dabit tibi

"Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the
landwhich the LORD your God gives you.


13 non occides

"You shall not kill.


14 non moechaberis

"You shall not commit adultery.


15 non furtum facies

"You shall not steal.


16 non loqueris contra proximum tuum falsum testimonium

"You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.


17 non concupisces domum proximi tui nec desiderabis uxorem eius non
servum non ancillam non bovem non asinum nec omnia quae illius sunt

"You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your
neighbor's wife, or his manservant, or his maidservant, or his ox, or
his ass, or anything that is your neighbor's."



Sources: Latin Vulgate from http://biblegateway.com

RSV from http://www.hti.umich.edu/r/rsv/


This page resides at
http://patriot.net/users/bmcgin/tencommandmentslatin.txt

A service of http://LoveAllPeople.org
Rev. Bill McGinnis, Director





Rev. Bill McGinnis ***@patriot.net

http://LoveAllPeople.org - Teaching And Practicing Love For All People
http://FeaturedProducts.net - Nine Favorite Categories, Some Items Free
Tom Aldrich
2003-11-09 10:35:03 UTC
Permalink
And all of this works out perfectly well after everyone on this planet has
been indoctrinated to your precept of god. And by what measures are you going
to use to convert everyone to your line of thinking for this to work, probadly
break your own commandments and make war.
Amos
2003-11-09 22:59:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom Aldrich
And all of this works out perfectly well after everyone on this planet has
been indoctrinated to your precept of god. And by what measures are you going
to use to convert everyone to your line of thinking for this to work, probadly
break your own commandments and make war.
Does it say anywhere among these laudable commandments that we are not
supposed to make war? David, who was beloved of God in spite of his
definitely coveting his neighbour's wife (and he did more than covet the
woman, he got her in the family way) waged rather a lot of war. No no,
you've got it all wrong.

Mind you, I don't see the point of this posting. Those who know the 10
commandments are probably well aware of them and those that don't know
probably don't care. And both groups probably don't know Latin.

Amos
Tom Aldrich
2003-11-10 09:23:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom Aldrich
Post by Tom Aldrich
And all of this works out perfectly well after everyone on this planet has
been indoctrinated to your precept of god. And by what measures are you
going
Post by Tom Aldrich
to use to convert everyone to your line of thinking for this to work,
probadly
Post by Tom Aldrich
break your own commandments and make war.
Does it say anywhere among these laudable commandments that we are not
supposed to make war? David, who was beloved of God in spite of his
definitely coveting his neighbour's wife (and he did more than covet the
woman, he got her in the family way) waged rather a lot of war. No no,
you've got it all wrong.
I'll have to pay more attention to posts that come from "loveallpeople.org"
Post by Tom Aldrich
Mind you, I don't see the point of this posting. Those who know the 10
commandments are probably well aware of them and those that don't know
probably don't care. And both groups probably don't know Latin.
Amos
Lynn K. Circle
2003-11-09 15:21:18 UTC
Permalink
Excellent translation of the Latin. However, since the Ten Commandments
were originally written in Hebrew and the Latin translation of the Hebrew
already contained some errors, this isn't terribly helpful (for example, the
original Hebrew was "Don't Murder," not "Thou Shalt Not Kill"

Lynn Circle
Post by Bill McGinnis
The Ten Commandments, As Recorded The Bible, Exodus 20:1-17
Latin Vulgate And English Revised Standard Version (RSV)
1 locutus quoque est Dominus cunctos sermones hos
And God spoke all these words, saying,
2 ego sum Dominus Deus tuus qui eduxi te de terra Aegypti de domo
servitutis
"I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt,
out of the house of bondage.
3 non habebis deos alienos coram me
"You shall have no other gods before me.
4 non facies tibi sculptile neque omnem similitudinem quae est in caelo
desuper et quae in terra deorsum nec eorum quae sunt in aquis sub
terra
"You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of
anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or
that is in the water under the earth;
5 non adorabis ea neque coles ego sum Dominus Deus tuus fortis zelotes
visitans iniquitatem patrum in filiis in tertiam et quartam
generationem eorum qui oderunt me
you shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the LORD your God
am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the
children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me,
6 et faciens misericordiam in milia his qui diligunt me et custodiunt
praecepta mea
but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep
my commandments.
7 non adsumes nomen Domini Dei tui in vanum nec enim habebit insontem
Dominus eum qui adsumpserit nomen Domini Dei sui frustra
"You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain; for the
LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain.
8 memento ut diem sabbati sanctifices
"Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 sex diebus operaberis et facies omnia opera tua
Six days you shall labor, and do all your work;
10 septimo autem die sabbati Domini Dei tui non facies omne opus tu et
filius tuus et filia tua servus tuus et ancilla tua iumentum tuum et
advena qui est intra portas tuas
but the seventh day is a sabbath to the LORD your God; in it you
shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your
manservant, or your maidservant, or your cattle, or the sojourner
who is within your gates;
11 sex enim diebus fecit Dominus caelum et terram et mare et omnia quae
in eis sunt et requievit in die septimo idcirco benedixit Dominus
diei sabbati et sanctificavit eum
for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all
that is in them, and rested the seventh day; therefore the LORD
blessed the sabbath day and hallowed it
12 honora patrem tuum et matrem tuam ut sis longevus super terram quam
Dominus Deus tuus dabit tibi
"Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the
landwhich the LORD your God gives you.
13 non occides
"You shall not kill.
14 non moechaberis
"You shall not commit adultery.
15 non furtum facies
"You shall not steal.
16 non loqueris contra proximum tuum falsum testimonium
"You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
17 non concupisces domum proximi tui nec desiderabis uxorem eius non
servum non ancillam non bovem non asinum nec omnia quae illius sunt
"You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your
neighbor's wife, or his manservant, or his maidservant, or his ox, or
his ass, or anything that is your neighbor's."
Sources: Latin Vulgate from http://biblegateway.com
RSV from http://www.hti.umich.edu/r/rsv/
This page resides at
http://patriot.net/users/bmcgin/tencommandmentslatin.txt
A service of http://LoveAllPeople.org
Rev. Bill McGinnis, Director
http://LoveAllPeople.org - Teaching And Practicing Love For All People
http://FeaturedProducts.net - Nine Favorite Categories, Some Items Free
Bill McGinnis
2003-11-09 21:44:58 UTC
Permalink
In talk.politics.mideast Lynn K. Circle <***@netscape.net> wrote:
: Excellent translation of the Latin. However, since the Ten Commandments
: were originally written in Hebrew and the Latin translation of the Hebrew
: already contained some errors, this isn't terribly helpful (for example, the
: original Hebrew was "Don't Murder," not "Thou Shalt Not Kill"
:
: Lynn Circle
:
Yes. Most modern Bible translations have it as "Don't murder" or "You
shall not murder," based on the original Hebrew, not Jerome's VULGATE
Latin.



: "Bill McGinnis" <***@adams.patriot.net> wrote in message
: news:***@corp.supernews.com...
:>
:> The Ten Commandments, As Recorded The Bible, Exodus 20:1-17
:> Latin Vulgate And English Revised Standard Version (RSV)
:>
:> 1 locutus quoque est Dominus cunctos sermones hos
:>
:> And God spoke all these words, saying,
:>
:>
:> 2 ego sum Dominus Deus tuus qui eduxi te de terra Aegypti de domo
:> servitutis
:>
:> "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt,
:> out of the house of bondage.
:>
:>
:> 3 non habebis deos alienos coram me
:>
:> "You shall have no other gods before me.
:>
:>
:> 4 non facies tibi sculptile neque omnem similitudinem quae est in caelo
:> desuper et quae in terra deorsum nec eorum quae sunt in aquis sub
:> terra
:>
:> "You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of
:> anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or
:> that is in the water under the earth;
:>
:>
:> 5 non adorabis ea neque coles ego sum Dominus Deus tuus fortis zelotes
:> visitans iniquitatem patrum in filiis in tertiam et quartam
:> generationem eorum qui oderunt me
:>
:> you shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the LORD your God
:> am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the
:> children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me,
:>
:>
:> 6 et faciens misericordiam in milia his qui diligunt me et custodiunt
:> praecepta mea
:>
:> but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep
:> my commandments.
:>
:>
:> 7 non adsumes nomen Domini Dei tui in vanum nec enim habebit insontem
:> Dominus eum qui adsumpserit nomen Domini Dei sui frustra
:>
:> "You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain; for the
:> LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain.
:>
:>
:> 8 memento ut diem sabbati sanctifices
:>
:> "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
:>
:>
:> 9 sex diebus operaberis et facies omnia opera tua
:>
:> Six days you shall labor, and do all your work;
:>
:>
:> 10 septimo autem die sabbati Domini Dei tui non facies omne opus tu et
:> filius tuus et filia tua servus tuus et ancilla tua iumentum tuum et
:> advena qui est intra portas tuas
:>
:> but the seventh day is a sabbath to the LORD your God; in it you
:> shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your
:> manservant, or your maidservant, or your cattle, or the sojourner
:> who is within your gates;
:>
:>
:> 11 sex enim diebus fecit Dominus caelum et terram et mare et omnia quae
:> in eis sunt et requievit in die septimo idcirco benedixit Dominus
:> diei sabbati et sanctificavit eum
:>
:> for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all
:> that is in them, and rested the seventh day; therefore the LORD
:> blessed the sabbath day and hallowed it
:>
:>
:> 12 honora patrem tuum et matrem tuam ut sis longevus super terram quam
:> Dominus Deus tuus dabit tibi
:>
:> "Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the
:> landwhich the LORD your God gives you.
:>
:>
:> 13 non occides
:>
:> "You shall not kill.
:>
:>
:> 14 non moechaberis
:>
:> "You shall not commit adultery.
:>
:>
:> 15 non furtum facies
:>
:> "You shall not steal.
:>
:>
:> 16 non loqueris contra proximum tuum falsum testimonium
:>
:> "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
:>
:>
:> 17 non concupisces domum proximi tui nec desiderabis uxorem eius non
:> servum non ancillam non bovem non asinum nec omnia quae illius sunt
:>
:> "You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your
:> neighbor's wife, or his manservant, or his maidservant, or his ox, or
:> his ass, or anything that is your neighbor's."
:>
:>
:>
:> Sources: Latin Vulgate from http://biblegateway.com
:>
:> RSV from http://www.hti.umich.edu/r/rsv/
:>
:>
:> This page resides at
:> http://patriot.net/users/bmcgin/tencommandmentslatin.txt
:>
:> A service of http://LoveAllPeople.org
:> Rev. Bill McGinnis, Director
:>
:>
:>
:>
:>
:> Rev. Bill McGinnis ***@patriot.net
:>
:> http://LoveAllPeople.org - Teaching And Practicing Love For All People
:> http://FeaturedProducts.net - Nine Favorite Categories, Some Items Free
:>
:
:
--
Rev. Bill McGinnis ***@patriot.net

http://LoveAllPeople.org - Teaching And Practicing Love For All People
http://FeaturedProducts.net - Nine Favorite Categories, Some Items Free
Lynn K. Circle
2003-11-10 00:52:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill McGinnis
: Excellent translation of the Latin. However, since the Ten Commandments
: were originally written in Hebrew and the Latin translation of the Hebrew
: already contained some errors, this isn't terribly helpful (for example, the
: original Hebrew was "Don't Murder," not "Thou Shalt Not Kill"
: Lynn Circle
Yes. Most modern Bible translations have it as "Don't murder" or "You
shall not murder," based on the original Hebrew, not Jerome's VULGATE
Latin.
The reason, of course, is why this is important is that the two statements
are differing ethical imperatives. "Thou shalt not kill" (assumedly meaning
"kill other people" would prohibit war, death penalty, and even
self-defense. "Don't Murder" permits just war, self-defense, and the death
penalty.

Interesting discussion. Thank you.
Deborah Sharavi
2003-11-10 20:34:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn K. Circle
The reason, of course, is why this is important is that the two
statements
Post by Lynn K. Circle
are differing ethical imperatives. "Thou shalt not kill" (assumedly meaning
"kill other people" would prohibit war, death penalty, and even
self-defense. "Don't Murder" permits just war, self-defense, and the death
penalty.
Interesting discussion. Thank you.
The quotes begin to diverge from the original Hebrew as follows:

<1 locutus quoque est Dominus cunctos sermones hos
<And God spoke all these words, saying,

Ex 20.1:
Vayedaber Elohim et kol-hadevarim ha'eleh lemor:
God spoke all these words, saying:

<2 ego sum Dominus Deus tuus qui eduxi te de terra Aegypti de domo
<servitutis
< "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt,
<out of the house of bondage.

Ex 20.2
Anochi Adonay Eloheycha asher hotseticha me'erets Mitsrayim mibeyt
avadim
I am the Lord your God who brought you out of Egypt from the place of
slavery.

<3 non habebis deos alienos coram me
< "You shall have no other gods before me.

Ex 20.3
Lo yihyeh lecha elohim acherim al-panay.
Don't have any other gods before Me.

<4 non facies tibi sculptile neque omnem similitudinem quae est in
caelo
<desuper et quae in terra deorsum nec eorum quae sunt in aquis sub
<terra
< "You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of
<anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or
<that is in the water under the earth;

Ex 20.4
Lo ta'aseh-lecha fesel vechol-temunah asher bashamayim mima'al
va'asher ba'arets mitachat va'asher bamayim mitachat la'arets
Don't make [such] gods by any carved statue or picture of anything in
the heaven above, on the earth below, or in the water below the land.

<5 non adorabis ea neque coles ego sum Dominus Deus tuus fortis
zelotes
<visitans iniquitatem patrum in filiis in tertiam et quartam
<generationem eorum qui oderunt me
<you shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the LORD your God
<am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the
<children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me,

Ex 20.5
Lo-tishtachaveh lahem velo ta'ovdem ki anochi Adonay Eloheycha El kana
poked avon avot al-banim al-shileshim ve'al-ribe'im leson'ay
Don't bow down to [such gods] or worship them. I am God your Lord, a
God who demands exclusive worship and where My enemies are concerned,
I keep in mind the sin of the fathers for [their] descendants, to the
third and fourth [generation].

<6 et faciens misericordiam in milia his qui diligunt me et
custodiunt
<praecepta mea
<but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep
<my commandments.

Ex 20.6
Ve'oseh chesed la'alafim le'ohavay uleshomrey mitsvotay.
But for those who love Me and keep My commandments, I show love for
thousands [of generations].

<7 non adsumes nomen Domini Dei tui in vanum nec enim habebit
insontem
<Dominus eum qui adsumpserit nomen Domini Dei sui frustra
<"You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain; for the
<LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain.

Ex 20.7
Lo tisa et-shem-Adonay Eloheycha lashav ki lo yenakeh Adonay et
asher-yisa et-shmo lashav.
Don't take the name of God your Lord illegally, God will not allow the
one who takes His name illegally to go unpunished.

<8 memento ut diem sabbati sanctifices
<"Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Ex 20.8
Zachor et-yom haShabat lekadsho
Remember the seventh day to keep it holy.

<9sex diebus operaberis et facies omnia opera tua
<Six days you shall labor, and do all your work;

Ex 20.9
Sheshet yamim ta'avod ve'asita chol-melachtecha.
You can work during six days and do all your tasks.

<10 septimo autem die sabbati Domini Dei tui non facies omne opus tu
et
<filius tuus et filia tua servus tuus et ancilla tua iumentum tuum et
<advena qui est intra portas tuas
<but the seventh day is a sabbath to the LORD your God; in it you
<shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your
<anservant, or your maidservant, or your cattle, or the sojourner
<who is within your gates;

Ex 20.10
Veyom hashvi'i Shabat l'Adonay Eloheycha lo ta'aseh chol-melachah atah
uvincha-uvitecha avdecha va'amatcha uvehemtecha vegercha asher
bish'areycha.
But the seventh day is the Sabbath to God your Lord. Don't do anything
that constitutes work, you, your son, your daughter, your slave, your
maid, your animal, and the foreigner in your gates.

<11 sex enim diebus fecit Dominus caelum et terram et mare et omnia
quae
<in eis sunt et requievit in die septimo idcirco benedixit Dominus
<diei sabbati et sanctificavit eum
<for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all
<that is in them, and rested the seventh day; therefore the LORD
<blessed the sabbath day and hallowed it

Ex 20.11
Ki sheshet-yamim asah Adonay et-hashamayim ve'et-ha'arets et-hayam
ve'et-kol-asher-bam vayanach bayom hashvi'i al-ken berach Adonay
et-yom haShabat vayekadeshehu.
In six days God made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that
is in them, but he rested on the Seventh. God therefore blessed the
Seventh day and made it holy.

<12 honora patrem tuum et matrem tuam ut sis longevus super terram
quam
<Dominus Deus tuus dabit tibi
<"Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the
<landwhich the LORD your God gives you.

Ex 20.12
Kaved et-avicha ve'et-imecha lema'an ya'arichun yameycha al ha'adamah
asher-Adonay Eloheycha noten lach.
Honor your father and mother so you will live long on the land that
God your Lord is giving you.

<13 non occides
< "You shall not kill.

Ex 20.13
Lo tirtsach. Lo tin'af. Lo tignov. Lo-ta'aneh vere'acha ed shaker.
Don't murder. Don't commit adultery. Don't steal. Don't
testify as a false witness against your neighbor.

<14 non moechaberis
< "You shall not commit adultery.

Ex 20.14
Lo tachmod beyt re'echa. Lo tachmod eshet re'echa ve'avdo va'amato
veshoro vachamoro vechol asher lere'echa.
Don't be envious of your neighbor's house. Don't be envious of your
neighbor's wife, his slave, his maid, his ox, his donkey, or anything
else that is your neighbor's.

<15 non furtum facies
<"You shall not steal.

Ex 20.15
Vechol-ha'am ro'im et-hakolot ve'et-halapidim ve'et kol hashofar
ve'et-hahar ashen vayar ha'am vayanu'u vaya'amdu merachok.
All the people saw the sounds, the flames, the blast of the ram's
horn, and the mountain smoking. The people trembled when they saw it,
keeping their distance.

<16 non loqueris contra proximum tuum falsum testimonium
<"You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

Ex 20.16
Vayomru el-Moshe daber-atah imanu venishma'ah ve'al-yedaber imanu
Elohim pen-namut.
They said to Moses, 'You speak to us, and we will listen. But let God
not speak with us any more, for we will die if He does'

<17 non concupisces domum proximi tui nec desiderabis uxorem eius
non
<servum non ancillam non bovem non asinum nec omnia quae illius sunt
<"You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your
< neighbor's wife, or his manservant, or his maidservant, or his ox,
or
< his ass, or anything that is your neighbor's."

Ex 20.17
Vayomer Moshe el-ha'am al-tira'u ki leva'avur nasot etchem ba
ha'Elohim uva'avur tiheyeh yir'ato al-pneychem levilti techeta'u.
Moses said to the people, 'Do not be afraid, God only came to raise
you up. His fear will then be on your faces, and you will not sin.'


Deborah
Amos
2003-11-10 21:52:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn K. Circle
Post by Lynn K. Circle
The reason, of course, is why this is important is that the two
statements
Post by Lynn K. Circle
are differing ethical imperatives. "Thou shalt not kill" (assumedly
meaning
Post by Lynn K. Circle
"kill other people" would prohibit war, death penalty, and even
self-defense. "Don't Murder" permits just war, self-defense, and the
death
Post by Lynn K. Circle
penalty.
Interesting discussion. Thank you.
<1 locutus quoque est Dominus cunctos sermones hos
<And God spoke all these words, saying,
<2 ego sum Dominus Deus tuus qui eduxi te de terra Aegypti de domo
<servitutis
< "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt,
<out of the house of bondage.
Ex 20.2
Anochi Adonay Eloheycha asher hotseticha me'erets Mitsrayim mibeyt
avadim
I am the Lord your God who brought you out of Egypt from the place of
slavery.
<3 non habebis deos alienos coram me
< "You shall have no other gods before me.
Ex 20.3
Lo yihyeh lecha elohim acherim al-panay.
Don't have any other gods before Me.
<4 non facies tibi sculptile neque omnem similitudinem quae est in
caelo
<desuper et quae in terra deorsum nec eorum quae sunt in aquis sub
<terra
< "You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of
<anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or
<that is in the water under the earth;
Ex 20.4
Lo ta'aseh-lecha fesel vechol-temunah asher bashamayim mima'al
va'asher ba'arets mitachat va'asher bamayim mitachat la'arets
Don't make [such] gods by any carved statue or picture of anything in
the heaven above, on the earth below, or in the water below the land.
<5 non adorabis ea neque coles ego sum Dominus Deus tuus fortis
zelotes
<visitans iniquitatem patrum in filiis in tertiam et quartam
<generationem eorum qui oderunt me
<you shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the LORD your God
<am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the
<children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me,
Ex 20.5
Lo-tishtachaveh lahem velo ta'ovdem ki anochi Adonay Eloheycha El kana
poked avon avot al-banim al-shileshim ve'al-ribe'im leson'ay
Don't bow down to [such gods] or worship them. I am God your Lord, a
God who demands exclusive worship and where My enemies are concerned,
I keep in mind the sin of the fathers for [their] descendants, to the
third and fourth [generation].
<6 et faciens misericordiam in milia his qui diligunt me et
custodiunt
<praecepta mea
<but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep
<my commandments.
Ex 20.6
Ve'oseh chesed la'alafim le'ohavay uleshomrey mitsvotay.
But for those who love Me and keep My commandments, I show love for
thousands [of generations].
<7 non adsumes nomen Domini Dei tui in vanum nec enim habebit
insontem
<Dominus eum qui adsumpserit nomen Domini Dei sui frustra
<"You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain; for the
<LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain.
Ex 20.7
Lo tisa et-shem-Adonay Eloheycha lashav ki lo yenakeh Adonay et
asher-yisa et-shmo lashav.
Don't take the name of God your Lord illegally, God will not allow the
one who takes His name illegally to go unpunished.
<8 memento ut diem sabbati sanctifices
<"Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Ex 20.8
Zachor et-yom haShabat lekadsho
Remember the seventh day to keep it holy.
<9sex diebus operaberis et facies omnia opera tua
<Six days you shall labor, and do all your work;
Ex 20.9
Sheshet yamim ta'avod ve'asita chol-melachtecha.
You can work during six days and do all your tasks.
<10 septimo autem die sabbati Domini Dei tui non facies omne opus tu
et
<filius tuus et filia tua servus tuus et ancilla tua iumentum tuum et
<advena qui est intra portas tuas
<but the seventh day is a sabbath to the LORD your God; in it you
<shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your
<anservant, or your maidservant, or your cattle, or the sojourner
<who is within your gates;
Ex 20.10
Veyom hashvi'i Shabat l'Adonay Eloheycha lo ta'aseh chol-melachah atah
uvincha-uvitecha avdecha va'amatcha uvehemtecha vegercha asher
bish'areycha.
But the seventh day is the Sabbath to God your Lord. Don't do anything
that constitutes work, you, your son, your daughter, your slave, your
maid, your animal, and the foreigner in your gates.
<11 sex enim diebus fecit Dominus caelum et terram et mare et omnia
quae
<in eis sunt et requievit in die septimo idcirco benedixit Dominus
<diei sabbati et sanctificavit eum
<for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all
<that is in them, and rested the seventh day; therefore the LORD
<blessed the sabbath day and hallowed it
Ex 20.11
Ki sheshet-yamim asah Adonay et-hashamayim ve'et-ha'arets et-hayam
ve'et-kol-asher-bam vayanach bayom hashvi'i al-ken berach Adonay
et-yom haShabat vayekadeshehu.
In six days God made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that
is in them, but he rested on the Seventh. God therefore blessed the
Seventh day and made it holy.
<12 honora patrem tuum et matrem tuam ut sis longevus super terram
quam
<Dominus Deus tuus dabit tibi
<"Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the
<landwhich the LORD your God gives you.
Ex 20.12
Kaved et-avicha ve'et-imecha lema'an ya'arichun yameycha al ha'adamah
asher-Adonay Eloheycha noten lach.
Honor your father and mother so you will live long on the land that
God your Lord is giving you.
<13 non occides
< "You shall not kill.
Ex 20.13
Lo tirtsach. Lo tin'af. Lo tignov. Lo-ta'aneh vere'acha ed shaker.
Don't murder. Don't commit adultery. Don't steal. Don't
testify as a false witness against your neighbor.
<14 non moechaberis
< "You shall not commit adultery.
Ex 20.14
Lo tachmod beyt re'echa. Lo tachmod eshet re'echa ve'avdo va'amato
veshoro vachamoro vechol asher lere'echa.
Don't be envious of your neighbor's house. Don't be envious of your
neighbor's wife, his slave, his maid, his ox, his donkey, or anything
else that is your neighbor's.
<15 non furtum facies
<"You shall not steal.
Ex 20.15
Vechol-ha'am ro'im et-hakolot ve'et-halapidim ve'et kol hashofar
ve'et-hahar ashen vayar ha'am vayanu'u vaya'amdu merachok.
All the people saw the sounds, the flames, the blast of the ram's
horn, and the mountain smoking. The people trembled when they saw it,
keeping their distance.
<16 non loqueris contra proximum tuum falsum testimonium
<"You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
Ex 20.16
Vayomru el-Moshe daber-atah imanu venishma'ah ve'al-yedaber imanu
Elohim pen-namut.
They said to Moses, 'You speak to us, and we will listen. But let God
not speak with us any more, for we will die if He does'
<17 non concupisces domum proximi tui nec desiderabis uxorem eius
non
<servum non ancillam non bovem non asinum nec omnia quae illius sunt
<"You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your
< neighbor's wife, or his manservant, or his maidservant, or his ox,
or
< his ass, or anything that is your neighbor's."
Ex 20.17
Vayomer Moshe el-ha'am al-tira'u ki leva'avur nasot etchem ba
ha'Elohim uva'avur tiheyeh yir'ato al-pneychem levilti techeta'u.
Moses said to the people, 'Do not be afraid, God only came to raise
you up. His fear will then be on your faces, and you will not sin.'
Deborah
Beautiful! Is covet the same be envious of? If I am jealous of my
neighbour's Mercedes, does that also mean I want to have it? It probably
doesn't make too much difference.

What a pity I don't know Hebrew. The only words I know are ken and lo, and,
lo and behold, lo is the only word I recognise in your Hebrew text.

This is God's gift to man, given throught the intermediary of Israel. Why a
gift? Because if you do these things you will have peace of mind. If you
really do not desire what is somebody else's you will have peace. That is
also the core of Buddhist belief. In statues of the Buddha his fingers are
of equal length so he can put the tips of his fingers on a flat surface
without appearing to grab. (Try it, it is true, you can't do it) That
symbolizes that the enlightened one is free from covetousness and at peace.
If you don't want to then you don't have to. David coveted his neighbour's
wife and it led to misery and ultimately to the breakup of Israel.

Amos
Peace Crusader
2003-11-12 02:56:30 UTC
Permalink
Dear Deborah and my Fellowmen,

Deborah wrote:
<8 memento ut diem sabbati sanctifices
<"Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Ex 20.8
Zachor et-yom haShabat lekadsho
Remember the seventh day to keep it holy.

My reply:
Does "et-yom haShabat" mean the seventh day or sabbath day? Is it in
plural form in Hebrew? Is it in plural form in Latin?

Please see my reply to Amos in this thread yesterday.

The peace of the true God be with us now and forever.

With love, your brother in Jesus,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader, ICD
Motto: pro aris et focis
http://www.geocities.com/peacecrusader888/
JGB
2003-11-09 17:14:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill McGinnis
The Ten Commandments, As Recorded The Bible, Exodus 20:1-17
Latin Vulgate And English Revised Standard Version (RSV)
13 non occides
This is incorrect. I don't know about the Latin, but the original
Hebrew says "Don't Murder." I can only speculate why the Church
fathers mistranslated it to "(Thou shalt) not Kill." But the original in
Hebrew reads "Do not Murder."
Sources: Latin Vulgate from http://biblegateway.com
Post by Bill McGinnis
RSV from http://www.hti.umich.edu/r/rsv/
This page resides at
http://patriot.net/users/bmcgin/tencommandmentslatin.txt
A service of http://LoveAllPeople.org
Rev. Bill McGinnis, Director
http://LoveAllPeople.org - Teaching And Practicing Love For All People
http://FeaturedProducts.net - Nine Favorite Categories, Some Items Free
Bill McGinnis
2003-11-09 21:34:41 UTC
Permalink
In talk.politics.mideast JGB <***@netzero.com> wrote:
: Bill McGinnis <***@adams.patriot.net> wrote in message news:<***@corp.supernews.com>...
:> The Ten Commandments, As Recorded The Bible, Exodus 20:1-17
:> Latin Vulgate And English Revised Standard Version (RSV)
:>
:
:
:> 13 non occides
:
: This is incorrect. I don't know about the Latin, but the original
: Hebrew says "Don't Murder." I can only speculate why the Church
: fathers mistranslated it to "(Thou shalt) not Kill." But the original in
: Hebrew reads "Do not Murder."
:
:
Yes, you are right. St. Jerome was the one who did the translation from
Hebrew (and New Testament Greek) into Latin. His Hebrew-to-Latin skills
were not as good as his Greek-to-Latin skills. At first, he tried to
translate the Old Testamnet from an existing Greek version, but that was
like making a bad copy of a bad copy: he gave up on it and went back to
the Hebrew as the source.

Fortunately for us today, we don't need to rely on the Vulgate, because we
can easily go to the original Hebrew and translate that into English.

Many people, including myself, believe that the most accurate translation
of the Old Testament (and maybe of the new Testament as well) is found in
the New American Standard Bible (NASB).

It translates the Ten Commandments from the Hebrew as shown below:


1 Then God spoke all these words, saying,
2 "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt,
out of the house of slavery.
3 "You shall have no other gods before Me.
4 "You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what
is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth.5 "You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God,
am a (7) jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the
children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,
6 but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
7 "You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD
will not leave him unpunished who takes His name in vain.
8 "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 "Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
10 but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you
shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male
or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you.11 "For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and
all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the
LORD blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.
12 "Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be prolonged
in the land which the LORD your God gives you.
13 "You shall not murder.
14 "You shall not commit adultery.
15 "You shall not steal.
16 "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
17 "You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet
your neighbor's wife or his male servant or his female servant
or his ox or his donkey or anything that belongs to your neighbor."



Source: NASB

Rev. Bill McGinnis ***@patriot.net
http://LoveAllPeople.org


: Sources: Latin Vulgate from http://biblegateway.com
:>
:> RSV from http://www.hti.umich.edu/r/rsv/
:>
:>
:> This page resides at
:> http://patriot.net/users/bmcgin/tencommandmentslatin.txt
:>
:> A service of http://LoveAllPeople.org
:> Rev. Bill McGinnis, Director
:>
:>
:>
:>
:>
:> Rev. Bill McGinnis ***@patriot.net
:>
:> http://LoveAllPeople.org - Teaching And Practicing Love For All People
:> http://FeaturedProducts.net - Nine Favorite Categories, Some Items Free
--
Rev. Bill McGinnis ***@patriot.net

http://LoveAllPeople.org - Teaching And Practicing Love For All People
http://FeaturedProducts.net - Nine Favorite Categories, Some Items Free
Peace Crusader
2003-11-10 02:32:54 UTC
Permalink
Dear Rev. Bill and my Fellowmen,
Post by Bill McGinnis
The Ten Commandments, As Recorded The Bible, Exodus 20:1-17
Latin Vulgate And English Revised Standard Version (RSV)
8 memento ut diem sabbati sanctifices
"Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
I do not know Latin. Could you please tell me the singular and plural
form of the word "sabbath" in both Latin and in Greek? Apparently, in
the above Latin, "diem sabbati" may be translated as "sabbath day".
Am I correct?

How about the original Greek text, is the word "day" present or just
"sabbath"? Is the Greek word for "sabbath" used as singular or
plural?

Thank you for your consideration of this request.

The blessings of the true God be with us all the days of our lives.

With love, your brother in Jesus,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader, ICD
Motto: pro aris et focis
http://www.geocities.com/peacecrusader888/
Amos
2003-11-10 22:15:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peace Crusader
Dear Rev. Bill and my Fellowmen,
Post by Bill McGinnis
The Ten Commandments, As Recorded The Bible, Exodus 20:1-17
Latin Vulgate And English Revised Standard Version (RSV)
8 memento ut diem sabbati sanctifices
"Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
I do not know Latin. Could you please tell me the singular and plural
form of the word "sabbath" in both Latin and in Greek? Apparently, in
the above Latin, "diem sabbati" may be translated as "sabbath day".
Am I correct?
It is a genitive of sabbatum so the day (accusative) of sabbath. Literally
the Latin says: remember that you will sanctify the day of the sabbath.
Latin has no definite article. The plural of sabbatum would be sabbata.
Sometimes sabbata is used to denote the singular in Latin. This is called a
plurale tantum (plural only).
Post by Peace Crusader
How about the original Greek text, is the word "day" present or just
"sabbath"? Is the Greek word for "sabbath" used as singular or
plural?
There is no Greek original, the original was in Hebrew. See Deborah
Sharavi's posting.

The old Septuagint translation (270 BC) had: mnèsthèti tèn hèmeran toon
sabbatoon agiazein autèn. The word day is present, it is hèmeran
(accusative, obviously) It is also present in the original Hebrew: Zachor
et-yom haShabat lekadsho, day in Hebrew is yom.

Here sabbatoon is used in the genitive plural (to sabbaton - ta sabbata)
which answers your question (apparently you do know something about these
things or you wouldn't have asked.) Maybe this is used as a plurale tantum
or, you could say, because there is more than one sabbath that has to be
sanctified. There is a new one each week.

Hope this is of use.

Amos
Peace Crusader
2003-11-11 03:10:32 UTC
Permalink
Dear Amos and my Fellowmen,

Thank you very much, Amos, for answering my questions. And to Deborah
Sharavi for posting the original text in Hebrew.

Why is the original Hebrew word of sabbath in the plural form? Is it
because sabbath does not apply only to the weekly seventh-day sabbath
but also to other sabbaths commanded by God? The following are those
sabbaths:
1. Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur) - Leviticus 16:29,31; 23:27-32
2. New Year's Day (Rosh Hashanah) - Leviticus 23:24-25
3. Festival of Tabernacles/Booths/Ingathering (Sukkoth) - first and
eighth days - Leviticus 23:35-36,39

These sabbaths are plainly called sabbath (Leviticus 23:24,39) or
sabbath of rest (Leviticus 16:31; 23:32). During these sabbaths,
there is holy convocation, and business and work are proscribed or
banned, like the weekly seventh-day sabbath.

So, it this the reason why the original Hebrew is in plural form?

Can we rewrite the verses to read as follows with sabbath in the
plural form:
Exodus 20:8 - Remember the sabbath days (or the sabbaths) to keep them
holy.
Deuteronomy 5:12 - Keep the sabbath days (or the sabbaths) to sanctify
them, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.

The peace of the true God be with us now and forever.

With love, your brother in Jesus,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader, ICD
Motto: pro aris et focis
http://www.geocities.com/peacecrusader888/
-----------
Post by Amos
Post by Peace Crusader
How about the original Greek text, is the word "day" present or just
"sabbath"? Is the Greek word for "sabbath" used as singular or
plural?
There is no Greek original, the original was in Hebrew. See Deborah
Sharavi's posting.
The old Septuagint translation (270 BC) had: mnèsthèti tèn hèmeran toon
sabbatoon agiazein autèn. The word day is present, it is hèmeran
(accusative, obviously) It is also present in the original Hebrew: Zachor
et-yom haShabat lekadsho, day in Hebrew is yom.
Here sabbatoon is used in the genitive plural (to sabbaton - ta sabbata)
which answers your question (apparently you do know something about these
things or you wouldn't have asked.) Maybe this is used as a plurale tantum
or, you could say, because there is more than one sabbath that has to be
sanctified. There is a new one each week.
Amos
2003-11-11 21:27:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peace Crusader
Dear Amos and my Fellowmen,
Thank you very much, Amos, for answering my questions. And to Deborah
Sharavi for posting the original text in Hebrew.
Why is the original Hebrew word of sabbath in the plural form?
Is it? As I said I don't know Hebrew, only Latin and Greek.

Is it
Post by Peace Crusader
because sabbath does not apply only to the weekly seventh-day sabbath
but also to other sabbaths commanded by God? The following are those
1. Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur) - Leviticus 16:29,31; 23:27-32
2. New Year's Day (Rosh Hashanah) - Leviticus 23:24-25
3. Festival of Tabernacles/Booths/Ingathering (Sukkoth) - first and
eighth days - Leviticus 23:35-36,39
These sabbaths are plainly called sabbath (Leviticus 23:24,39) or
sabbath of rest (Leviticus 16:31; 23:32). During these sabbaths,
there is holy convocation, and business and work are proscribed or
banned, like the weekly seventh-day sabbath.
So, it this the reason why the original Hebrew is in plural form?
Can we rewrite the verses to read as follows with sabbath in the
Exodus 20:8 - Remember the sabbath days (or the sabbaths) to keep them
holy.
Deuteronomy 5:12 - Keep the sabbath days (or the sabbaths) to sanctify
them, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.
The peace of the true God be with us now and forever.
With love, your brother in Jesus,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader, ICD
Motto: pro aris et focis
http://www.geocities.com/peacecrusader888/
-----------
Kim Bebbington
2003-11-16 15:14:43 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 22:27:58 +0100, "Amos"
Post by Amos
Post by Peace Crusader
Dear Amos and my Fellowmen,
Thank you very much, Amos, for answering my questions. And to Deborah
Sharavi for posting the original text in Hebrew.
Why is the original Hebrew word of sabbath in the plural form?
Is it? As I said I don't know Hebrew, only Latin and Greek.
No it isn't.
The words are 'yom hashabbat'. [day of rest] "Yom' is singular (and,
not that it bears on the meaning of the phrase, so is 'shabbat').
Post by Amos
Is it
Post by Peace Crusader
because sabbath does not apply only to the weekly seventh-day sabbath
but also to other sabbaths commanded by God? The following are those
1. Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur) - Leviticus 16:29,31; 23:27-32
2. New Year's Day (Rosh Hashanah) - Leviticus 23:24-25
3. Festival of Tabernacles/Booths/Ingathering (Sukkoth) - first and
eighth days - Leviticus 23:35-36,39
These sabbaths are plainly called sabbath (Leviticus 23:24,39) or
sabbath of rest (Leviticus 16:31; 23:32). During these sabbaths,
there is holy convocation, and business and work are proscribed or
banned, like the weekly seventh-day sabbath.
So, it this the reason why the original Hebrew is in plural form?
Can we rewrite the verses to read as follows with sabbath in the
Exodus 20:8 - Remember the sabbath days (or the sabbaths) to keep them
holy.
Deuteronomy 5:12 - Keep the sabbath days (or the sabbaths) to sanctify
them, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.
The peace of the true God be with us now and forever.
With love, your brother in Jesus,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader, ICD
Motto: pro aris et focis
http://www.geocities.com/peacecrusader888/
-----------
Norma
2003-11-16 17:26:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kim Bebbington
On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 22:27:58 +0100, "Amos"
Post by Amos
Post by Peace Crusader
Dear Amos and my Fellowmen,
Thank you very much, Amos, for answering my questions. And to Deborah
Sharavi for posting the original text in Hebrew.
Why is the original Hebrew word of sabbath in the plural form?
Is it? As I said I don't know Hebrew, only Latin and Greek.
No it isn't.
The words are 'yom hashabbat'. [day of rest] "Yom' is singular (and,
not that it bears on the meaning of the phrase, so is 'shabbat').
I do admire (envy?) your command of Hebrew. I don't remember if it is your
first language, but I am constantly studying and rehearsing. Norma
Post by Kim Bebbington
Post by Amos
Is it
Post by Peace Crusader
because sabbath does not apply only to the weekly seventh-day sabbath
but also to other sabbaths commanded by God? The following are those
1. Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur) - Leviticus 16:29,31; 23:27-32
2. New Year's Day (Rosh Hashanah) - Leviticus 23:24-25
3. Festival of Tabernacles/Booths/Ingathering (Sukkoth) - first and
eighth days - Leviticus 23:35-36,39
These sabbaths are plainly called sabbath (Leviticus 23:24,39) or
sabbath of rest (Leviticus 16:31; 23:32). During these sabbaths,
there is holy convocation, and business and work are proscribed or
banned, like the weekly seventh-day sabbath.
So, it this the reason why the original Hebrew is in plural form?
Can we rewrite the verses to read as follows with sabbath in the
Exodus 20:8 - Remember the sabbath days (or the sabbaths) to keep them
holy.
Deuteronomy 5:12 - Keep the sabbath days (or the sabbaths) to sanctify
them, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.
The peace of the true God be with us now and forever.
With love, your brother in Jesus,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader, ICD
Motto: pro aris et focis
http://www.geocities.com/peacecrusader888/
-----------
Kim Bebbington
2003-11-16 23:53:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Norma
Post by Kim Bebbington
On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 22:27:58 +0100, "Amos"
Post by Amos
Post by Peace Crusader
Dear Amos and my Fellowmen,
Thank you very much, Amos, for answering my questions. And to Deborah
Sharavi for posting the original text in Hebrew.
Why is the original Hebrew word of sabbath in the plural form?
Is it? As I said I don't know Hebrew, only Latin and Greek.
No it isn't.
The words are 'yom hashabbat'. [day of rest] "Yom' is singular (and,
not that it bears on the meaning of the phrase, so is 'shabbat').
I do admire (envy?) your command of Hebrew. I don't remember if it is your
first language, but I am constantly studying and rehearsing. Norma
It's my second - but don't get too fulsome in your praise. As my
daughter (aged eight at the time) said to her school friend - "Yeah,
of course he speaks Hebrew. But, I tell you, he makes so many
mistakes!"
[Betach hu m'daber ivrit - aval mah, hu oseh hamon shgiot!]
Post by Norma
Post by Kim Bebbington
Post by Amos
Is it
Post by Peace Crusader
because sabbath does not apply only to the weekly seventh-day sabbath
but also to other sabbaths commanded by God? The following are those
1. Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur) - Leviticus 16:29,31; 23:27-32
2. New Year's Day (Rosh Hashanah) - Leviticus 23:24-25
3. Festival of Tabernacles/Booths/Ingathering (Sukkoth) - first and
eighth days - Leviticus 23:35-36,39
These sabbaths are plainly called sabbath (Leviticus 23:24,39) or
sabbath of rest (Leviticus 16:31; 23:32). During these sabbaths,
there is holy convocation, and business and work are proscribed or
banned, like the weekly seventh-day sabbath.
So, it this the reason why the original Hebrew is in plural form?
Can we rewrite the verses to read as follows with sabbath in the
Exodus 20:8 - Remember the sabbath days (or the sabbaths) to keep them
holy.
Deuteronomy 5:12 - Keep the sabbath days (or the sabbaths) to sanctify
them, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.
The peace of the true God be with us now and forever.
With love, your brother in Jesus,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader, ICD
Motto: pro aris et focis
http://www.geocities.com/peacecrusader888/
-----------
Norma
2003-11-17 00:00:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kim Bebbington
Post by Norma
Post by Kim Bebbington
On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 22:27:58 +0100, "Amos"
Post by Amos
Post by Peace Crusader
Dear Amos and my Fellowmen,
Thank you very much, Amos, for answering my questions. And to Deborah
Sharavi for posting the original text in Hebrew.
Why is the original Hebrew word of sabbath in the plural form?
Is it? As I said I don't know Hebrew, only Latin and Greek.
No it isn't.
The words are 'yom hashabbat'. [day of rest] "Yom' is singular (and,
not that it bears on the meaning of the phrase, so is 'shabbat').
I do admire (envy?) your command of Hebrew. I don't remember if it is your
first language, but I am constantly studying and rehearsing. Norma
It's my second - but don't get too fulsome in your praise. As my
daughter (aged eight at the time) said to her school friend - "Yeah,
of course he speaks Hebrew. But, I tell you, he makes so many
mistakes!"
[Betach hu m'daber ivrit - aval mah, hu oseh hamon shgiot!]
I can't believe she is 8!! Do you have a younger child, as well? Norma
Post by Kim Bebbington
Post by Norma
Post by Kim Bebbington
Post by Amos
Is it
Post by Peace Crusader
because sabbath does not apply only to the weekly seventh-day sabbath
but also to other sabbaths commanded by God? The following are those
1. Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur) - Leviticus 16:29,31; 23:27-32
2. New Year's Day (Rosh Hashanah) - Leviticus 23:24-25
3. Festival of Tabernacles/Booths/Ingathering (Sukkoth) - first and
eighth days - Leviticus 23:35-36,39
These sabbaths are plainly called sabbath (Leviticus 23:24,39) or
sabbath of rest (Leviticus 16:31; 23:32). During these sabbaths,
there is holy convocation, and business and work are proscribed or
banned, like the weekly seventh-day sabbath.
So, it this the reason why the original Hebrew is in plural form?
Can we rewrite the verses to read as follows with sabbath in the
Exodus 20:8 - Remember the sabbath days (or the sabbaths) to keep them
holy.
Deuteronomy 5:12 - Keep the sabbath days (or the sabbaths) to sanctify
them, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.
The peace of the true God be with us now and forever.
With love, your brother in Jesus,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader, ICD
Motto: pro aris et focis
http://www.geocities.com/peacecrusader888/
-----------
Kim Bebbington
2003-11-17 23:46:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Deborah Sharavi
Post by Kim Bebbington
Post by Norma
Post by Kim Bebbington
On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 22:27:58 +0100, "Amos"
Post by Amos
Post by Peace Crusader
Dear Amos and my Fellowmen,
Thank you very much, Amos, for answering my questions. And to
Deborah
Post by Kim Bebbington
Post by Norma
Post by Kim Bebbington
Post by Amos
Post by Peace Crusader
Sharavi for posting the original text in Hebrew.
Why is the original Hebrew word of sabbath in the plural form?
Is it? As I said I don't know Hebrew, only Latin and Greek.
No it isn't.
The words are 'yom hashabbat'. [day of rest] "Yom' is singular (and,
not that it bears on the meaning of the phrase, so is 'shabbat').
I do admire (envy?) your command of Hebrew. I don't remember if it is
your
Post by Kim Bebbington
Post by Norma
first language, but I am constantly studying and rehearsing. Norma
It's my second - but don't get too fulsome in your praise. As my
daughter (aged eight at the time) said to her school friend - "Yeah,
of course he speaks Hebrew. But, I tell you, he makes so many
mistakes!"
[Betach hu m'daber ivrit - aval mah, hu oseh hamon shgiot!]
I can't believe she is 8!! Do you have a younger child, as well? Norma
I have three girls. The eight year old is now fourteen.
I have two other daughters aged five and two.

snip
Deborah Sharavi
2003-11-18 21:03:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kim Bebbington
I have three girls. The eight year old is now fourteen.
I have two other daughters aged five and two.
snip
No! No! No! IMPOSSIBLE!

Deborah
Deborah Sharavi
2003-11-17 23:47:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kim Bebbington
It's my second - but don't get too fulsome in your praise. As my
daughter (aged eight at the time) said to her school friend - "Yeah,
of course he speaks Hebrew. But, I tell you, he makes so many
mistakes!"
[Betach hu m'daber ivrit - aval mah, hu oseh hamon shgiot!]
She's eight already??????? Oi GEVALT!!!!!!!!

Deborah
Kim Bebbington
2003-11-18 16:24:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Deborah Sharavi
Post by Kim Bebbington
It's my second - but don't get too fulsome in your praise. As my
daughter (aged eight at the time) said to her school friend - "Yeah,
of course he speaks Hebrew. But, I tell you, he makes so many
mistakes!"
[Betach hu m'daber ivrit - aval mah, hu oseh hamon shgiot!]
She's eight already??????? Oi GEVALT!!!!!!!!
Relax. I was talking about Keren (my eldest from my first marriage),
who is now 14.
Emily/Ayelet is only five; so three extra years have not slipped past
without you noticing. :-)

Emily is impressed with my Hebrew. It is my mistakes in Japanese that
she laughs at...
Deborah Sharavi
2003-11-19 23:56:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kim Bebbington
Post by Deborah Sharavi
Post by Kim Bebbington
It's my second - but don't get too fulsome in your praise. As my
daughter (aged eight at the time) said to her school friend - "Yeah,
of course he speaks Hebrew. But, I tell you, he makes so many
mistakes!"
[Betach hu m'daber ivrit - aval mah, hu oseh hamon shgiot!]
She's eight already??????? Oi GEVALT!!!!!!!!
Relax. I was talking about Keren (my eldest from my first marriage),
who is now 14.
14 now? My condolences. Don't worry, though, in a few years
she'll turn into a human being again, so there's light at
the end of the teen-years tunnel.
Post by Kim Bebbington
Emily/Ayelet is only five; so three extra years have not slipped past
without you noticing. :-)
Phew! She must be a doll, she was such a cute Purim Bunny!
Post by Kim Bebbington
Emily is impressed with my Hebrew. It is my mistakes in Japanese that
she laughs at...
Par for the course. When my father was learning Japanese,
his friends' kids used to giggle at his mistakes, usually
when his mispronounciations elicited A Bad Word.

Deborah
Kim Bebbington
2003-11-22 13:13:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Deborah Sharavi
Post by Kim Bebbington
Post by Deborah Sharavi
Post by Kim Bebbington
It's my second - but don't get too fulsome in your praise. As my
daughter (aged eight at the time) said to her school friend - "Yeah,
of course he speaks Hebrew. But, I tell you, he makes so many
mistakes!"
[Betach hu m'daber ivrit - aval mah, hu oseh hamon shgiot!]
She's eight already??????? Oi GEVALT!!!!!!!!
Relax. I was talking about Keren (my eldest from my first marriage),
who is now 14.
14 now? My condolences. Don't worry, though, in a few years
she'll turn into a human being again, so there's light at
the end of the teen-years tunnel.
Well, that's mainly her mother's worry...
Post by Deborah Sharavi
Post by Kim Bebbington
Emily/Ayelet is only five; so three extra years have not slipped past
without you noticing. :-)
Phew! She must be a doll, she was such a cute Purim Bunny!
She's still a little doll.
For Purim last year, her elder sister, Keren, told she had dressed as
a bunny. "Oh," said I, "You know Emily also dressed a s a little
rabbit - and won first prize..."
"No," said Keren, then aged twelve,"Not a rabbit - a bunny. A Playboy
bunny..."
Post by Deborah Sharavi
Post by Kim Bebbington
Emily is impressed with my Hebrew. It is my mistakes in Japanese that
she laughs at...
Par for the course. When my father was learning Japanese,
his friends' kids used to giggle at his mistakes, usually
when his mispronounciations elicited A Bad Word.
Like when I asked the subway ticket collector for a transfer to
Onarimon station. Unfortunately, I mispronounced it as "Onaramon" -
which, loosely translated, is "Fartinggate".

Still, not as bad as a friend, who, while explaining a problem to his
landlady confused "oshire"(closet) with "oshiri" (backside) and
explained that there was mould spreading in his bum.
Deborah Sharavi
2003-11-24 19:48:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kim Bebbington
Post by Deborah Sharavi
14 now? My condolences. Don't worry, though, in a few years
she'll turn into a human being again, so there's light at
the end of the teen-years tunnel.
Well, that's mainly her mother's worry...
Post by Deborah Sharavi
Phew! She must be a doll, she was such a cute Purim Bunny!
She's still a little doll.
For Purim last year, her elder sister, Keren, told she had dressed as
a bunny. "Oh," said I, "You know Emily also dressed a s a little
rabbit - and won first prize..."
"No," said Keren, then aged twelve,"Not a rabbit - a bunny. A Playboy
bunny..."
I remember that one - the Little Bunny and the Bunny.
Post by Kim Bebbington
Like when I asked the subway ticket collector for a transfer to
Onarimon station. Unfortunately, I mispronounced it as "Onaramon" -
which, loosely translated, is "Fartinggate".
Still, not as bad as a friend, who, while explaining a problem to his
landlady confused "oshire"(closet) with "oshiri" (backside) and
explained that there was mould spreading in his bum.
I don't recall the actual words, but the second could have
been one of them. All I remember is that it was a matter
of emphasizing one syllable and not the other which made
the kids laugh.

Deborah

Peace Crusader
2003-11-18 05:42:18 UTC
Permalink
Dear Kim and my Fellowmen,
Post by Kim Bebbington
Post by Amos
Post by Peace Crusader
Dear Amos and my Fellowmen,
Thank you very much, Amos, for answering my questions. And to Deborah
Sharavi for posting the original text in Hebrew.
Why is the original Hebrew word of sabbath in the plural form?
Is it? As I said I don't know Hebrew, only Latin and Greek.
No it isn't.
The words are 'yom hashabbat'. [day of rest] "Yom' is singular (and,
not that it bears on the meaning of the phrase, so is 'shabbat').
If "yom hashabbat" is singular, does this mean to say that the
God-designated sabbath days must be remembered and sanctified?

This is Deborah's post:
"Ex 20.8
Zachor et-yom haShabat lekadsho
Remember the seventh day to keep it holy."

Can we rephrase the commandment as "Remember the day of rest to keep
it holy." or "Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy."?

It does not specifically say in the commandment that it is the seventh
day that should be observed as holy only. God commanded other days to
be made sabbath as well, such as

1. Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur) - Leviticus 16:29,31; 23:27-32
2. New Year's Day (Rosh Hashanah) - Leviticus 23:24-25
3. Festival of Tabernacles/Booths/Ingathering (Sukkoth) - first and
eighth days - Leviticus 23:35-36,39

These sabbaths are plainly called sabbath (Leviticus 23:24,39) or
sabbath of rest (Leviticus 16:31; 23:32). During these sabbaths,
there is holy convocation, and business and work are proscribed or
banned, like the weekly seventh-day sabbath.

So the commandment must be for the weekly seventh-day sabbath
(Saturday) AND the sabbaths on major Jewish holy days.

Does this make sense?

The peace of the true God be with us now and forever.

With love, your brother in Jesus,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader, ICD
Motto: pro aris et focis
http://www.geocities.com/peacecrusader888/
Kim Bebbington
2003-11-18 16:24:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peace Crusader
Dear Kim and my Fellowmen,
Post by Kim Bebbington
Post by Amos
Post by Peace Crusader
Dear Amos and my Fellowmen,
Thank you very much, Amos, for answering my questions. And to Deborah
Sharavi for posting the original text in Hebrew.
Why is the original Hebrew word of sabbath in the plural form?
Is it? As I said I don't know Hebrew, only Latin and Greek.
No it isn't.
The words are 'yom hashabbat'. [day of rest] "Yom' is singular (and,
not that it bears on the meaning of the phrase, so is 'shabbat').
If "yom hashabbat" is singular, does this mean to say that the
God-designated sabbath days must be remembered and sanctified?
"Ex 20.8
Zachor et-yom haShabat lekadsho
Remember the seventh day to keep it holy."
Can we rephrase the commandment as "Remember the day of rest to keep
it holy." or "Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy."?
It does not specifically say in the commandment that it is the seventh
day that should be observed as holy only.
It DOES specifically say in the commandment that the shabbat is the
seventh day. To wit:
"Zchor et yom hashabbat l'kadsho. Sheshet yamim taavod veasita kol
malakhtekha. V'YOM HASHVII SHABBAT L'ADONAI ELOHEKHA lo taaseh kol
malakha..."

"Remember the sabbath day to sanctify it. Six days you shall work and
do all your labour. AND THE SEVENTH DAY IS A DAY OF REST [Shabbat] TO
THE LORD YOUR GOD you will not do any labour..."



God commanded other days to
Post by Peace Crusader
be made sabbath as well, such as
1. Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur) - Leviticus 16:29,31; 23:27-32
2. New Year's Day (Rosh Hashanah) - Leviticus 23:24-25
3. Festival of Tabernacles/Booths/Ingathering (Sukkoth) - first and
eighth days - Leviticus 23:35-36,39
Not one of these is mentioned in the ten comandments
Post by Peace Crusader
These sabbaths are plainly called sabbath (Leviticus 23:24,39) or
sabbath of rest (Leviticus 16:31; 23:32). During these sabbaths,
there is holy convocation, and business and work are proscribed or
banned, like the weekly seventh-day sabbath.
So the commandment must be for the weekly seventh-day sabbath
(Saturday) AND the sabbaths on major Jewish holy days.
Does this make sense?
Not especially. There are commandments to keep sabbath days given in
other sections of the Torah. The commandment in the decalogue quite
clearly refers to the seventh day of the week; not to other sabbath
days (which may occur on other days of the week).

It's really very clear and uncomplicated.
Post by Peace Crusader
The peace of the true God be with us now and forever.
With love, your brother in Jesus,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader, ICD
Motto: pro aris et focis
http://www.geocities.com/peacecrusader888/
Peace Crusader
2003-11-20 02:51:04 UTC
Permalink
Dear Kim and my Fellowmen,
Post by Kim Bebbington
Post by Peace Crusader
Post by Kim Bebbington
Post by Amos
Post by Peace Crusader
Dear Amos and my Fellowmen,
Thank you very much, Amos, for answering my questions. And to Deborah
Sharavi for posting the original text in Hebrew.
Why is the original Hebrew word of sabbath in the plural form?
Is it? As I said I don't know Hebrew, only Latin and Greek.
No it isn't.
The words are 'yom hashabbat'. [day of rest] "Yom' is singular (and,
not that it bears on the meaning of the phrase, so is 'shabbat').
If "yom hashabbat" is singular, does this mean to say that the
God-designated sabbath days must be remembered and sanctified?
"Ex 20.8
Zachor et-yom haShabat lekadsho
Remember the seventh day to keep it holy."
Can we rephrase the commandment as "Remember the day of rest to keep
it holy." or "Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy."?
It does not specifically say in the commandment that it is the seventh
day that should be observed as holy only.
It DOES specifically say in the commandment that the shabbat is the
"Zchor et yom hashabbat l'kadsho. Sheshet yamim taavod veasita kol
malakhtekha. V'YOM HASHVII SHABBAT L'ADONAI ELOHEKHA lo taaseh kol
malakha..."
"Remember the sabbath day to sanctify it. Six days you shall work and
do all your labour. AND THE SEVENTH DAY IS A DAY OF REST [Shabbat] TO
THE LORD YOUR GOD you will not do any labour..."
From KJV, Exodus 20:8, "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy."
And then Exodus 20:9-10, "Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy
work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: ..."

You are emphasizing that the commandment on Sabbath applies only to
the seventh-day sabbath. Why do you think the commandment is placed
as the first sentence? Is it because sabbath does not apply only to
the seventh day of the week? As I have pointed out, there are other
"sabbaths" or "sabbaths of rest" mentioned in Leviticus that have to
be made holy as well. Why are they called "sabbaths" or "sabbaths of
rest"? Why is that first sentence not emphasizing that it is the
seventh-day sabbath only that is referred to? Why does the verse just
mention that sabbath has to be remembered and kept holy?

Verses 9-10 are explanations for the seventh-day sabbath. The Jewish
days before were just numbered. I understand that the first day of
the Jewish week is Sunday (of course, from sundown or 6 pm of Saturday
to sundown or 6 pm of Sunday); the second day, Monday; the third day,
Tuesday; ..., and the seventh day, Saturday. The seventh day calls
for a day of rest and this is what is called Sabbath. The seventh day
of the Muslims is Friday and the Christians, Sunday. These are their
sabbath days. These are days that have to be made holy. The sabbath
days in Leviticus also call for rest and abstention from business and
work.

What I would like to emphasize here is that the fourth commandment of
observing sabbath and keeping it holy is not confined only to the
seventh-day sabbath but to sabbaths during major Jewish festivals.

The peace of the true God be with us now and forever.

With love, your brother in Jesus,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader, ICD
Motto: pro aris et focis
http://www.geocities.com/peacecrusader888/

====================
Post by Kim Bebbington
God commanded other days to
Post by Peace Crusader
be made sabbath as well, such as
1. Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur) - Leviticus 16:29,31; 23:27-32
2. New Year's Day (Rosh Hashanah) - Leviticus 23:24-25
3. Festival of Tabernacles/Booths/Ingathering (Sukkoth) - first and
eighth days - Leviticus 23:35-36,39
Not one of these is mentioned in the ten comandments
Post by Peace Crusader
These sabbaths are plainly called sabbath (Leviticus 23:24,39) or
sabbath of rest (Leviticus 16:31; 23:32). During these sabbaths,
there is holy convocation, and business and work are proscribed or
banned, like the weekly seventh-day sabbath.
So the commandment must be for the weekly seventh-day sabbath
(Saturday) AND the sabbaths on major Jewish holy days.
Does this make sense?
Not especially. There are commandments to keep sabbath days given in
other sections of the Torah. The commandment in the decalogue quite
clearly refers to the seventh day of the week; not to other sabbath
days (which may occur on other days of the week).
It's really very clear and uncomplicated.
Kim Bebbington
2003-11-22 13:34:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peace Crusader
Dear Kim and my Fellowmen,
Post by Kim Bebbington
Post by Peace Crusader
Post by Kim Bebbington
Post by Amos
Post by Peace Crusader
Dear Amos and my Fellowmen,
Thank you very much, Amos, for answering my questions. And to Deborah
Sharavi for posting the original text in Hebrew.
Why is the original Hebrew word of sabbath in the plural form?
Is it? As I said I don't know Hebrew, only Latin and Greek.
No it isn't.
The words are 'yom hashabbat'. [day of rest] "Yom' is singular (and,
not that it bears on the meaning of the phrase, so is 'shabbat').
If "yom hashabbat" is singular, does this mean to say that the
God-designated sabbath days must be remembered and sanctified?
"Ex 20.8
Zachor et-yom haShabat lekadsho
Remember the seventh day to keep it holy."
Can we rephrase the commandment as "Remember the day of rest to keep
it holy." or "Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy."?
It does not specifically say in the commandment that it is the seventh
day that should be observed as holy only.
It DOES specifically say in the commandment that the shabbat is the
"Zchor et yom hashabbat l'kadsho. Sheshet yamim taavod veasita kol
malakhtekha. V'YOM HASHVII SHABBAT L'ADONAI ELOHEKHA lo taaseh kol
malakha..."
"Remember the sabbath day to sanctify it. Six days you shall work and
do all your labour. AND THE SEVENTH DAY IS A DAY OF REST [Shabbat] TO
THE LORD YOUR GOD you will not do any labour..."
From KJV, Exodus 20:8, "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy."
And then Exodus 20:9-10, "Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy
work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: ..."
You are emphasizing that the commandment on Sabbath applies only to
the seventh-day sabbath.
In the commandment given in Exodus 20, yes. It is perfectly clear from
the commandment that it does refer to the seventh day of the week. It
says so explicitly. How could it possibly be more explicit?
Post by Peace Crusader
Why do you think the commandment is placed
as the first sentence? Is it because sabbath does not apply only to
the seventh day of the week? As I have pointed out, there are other
"sabbaths" or "sabbaths of rest" mentioned in Leviticus that have to
be made holy as well.
Yes, commandments to observe other days as days of rest, both
individually and collectively, occur elsewhere in the Torah. (Ex. 31,
Lev 19, 23, 24, 26) But the fourth of the ten commandments (Both in
Exodus and Deuteronomy) refers to the seventh day.
Post by Peace Crusader
Why are they called "sabbaths" or "sabbaths of
rest"?
The word shabbat comes from the verb "lishvot" which means to cease
work. Hence, days on which we are commanded to refrain from work are
called shabats. Very simple really.
Post by Peace Crusader
Why is that first sentence not emphasizing that it is the
seventh-day sabbath only that is referred to? Why does the verse just
mention that sabbath has to be remembered and kept holy?
Verses 9-10 are explanations for the seventh-day sabbath. The Jewish
days before were just numbered. I understand that the first day of
the Jewish week is Sunday (of course, from sundown or 6 pm of Saturday
to sundown or 6 pm of Sunday); the second day, Monday; the third day,
Tuesday; ..., and the seventh day, Saturday. The seventh day calls
for a day of rest and this is what is called Sabbath. The seventh day
of the Muslims is Friday and the Christians, Sunday. These are their
sabbath days. These are days that have to be made holy. The sabbath
days in Leviticus also call for rest and abstention from business and
work.
What I would like to emphasize here is that the fourth commandment of
observing sabbath and keeping it holy is not confined only to the
seventh-day sabbath but to sabbaths during major Jewish festivals.
And you are talking rubbish. The fourth commandment relates only
seventh day.
The commandment to keep "sabbaths" appears in Leviticus 19:30 -
different book; different set of commandments.
Why isn't this clear to you?
Post by Peace Crusader
The peace of the true God be with us now and forever.
With love, your brother in Jesus,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader, ICD
Motto: pro aris et focis
http://www.geocities.com/peacecrusader888/
====================
Post by Kim Bebbington
God commanded other days to
Post by Peace Crusader
be made sabbath as well, such as
1. Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur) - Leviticus 16:29,31; 23:27-32
2. New Year's Day (Rosh Hashanah) - Leviticus 23:24-25
3. Festival of Tabernacles/Booths/Ingathering (Sukkoth) - first and
eighth days - Leviticus 23:35-36,39
Not one of these is mentioned in the ten comandments
Post by Peace Crusader
These sabbaths are plainly called sabbath (Leviticus 23:24,39) or
sabbath of rest (Leviticus 16:31; 23:32). During these sabbaths,
there is holy convocation, and business and work are proscribed or
banned, like the weekly seventh-day sabbath.
So the commandment must be for the weekly seventh-day sabbath
(Saturday) AND the sabbaths on major Jewish holy days.
Does this make sense?
Not especially. There are commandments to keep sabbath days given in
other sections of the Torah. The commandment in the decalogue quite
clearly refers to the seventh day of the week; not to other sabbath
days (which may occur on other days of the week).
It's really very clear and uncomplicated.
Peace Crusader
2003-11-24 01:46:25 UTC
Permalink
Dear Kim and my Fellowmen,

Thank you very much for answering my questions and clarifying sabbath
as viewed and observed by Jews. I understand that you are emphasizing
that the fourth commandment on Sabbath refers to the Saturday Sabbath
only. We will leave our discussion as that.

In Israel, is Saturday really adhered to as Sabbath and abstention
from work and business is observed? I wish the Christians would treat
Sunday as such also. Unfortunately, not all people believe in God.
So in the west, Sunday is also a trading day but shortened. Instead
of shops opening at 9:00 am or earlier, they open at 10:00 am. And
instead of closing at 5:00 or 5:30 or 6:00 pm, they close at 4:00 pm.
When will we ever give one day in a week for God? What for is the
material wealth that we would want to amass? We cannot even take them
with us when we die, can we? Our soul become very hungry for the
world of God. It is starving. It is malnourished. We should give
time for it to be fed, to be cleansed, to be healed. And God is
asking only one day in seven for this. But some people want to give
only 1/4 of the day, or even 1/8 or even just 1/24 (or 1 hour only).
How selfish man is. I wish man would realize that sabbath has been
made by God for his own benefit. It should not be taken for granted
or ignored.

The peace of the true God be with us now and forever.

Shalom,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader, ICD
Motto: pro aris et focis
http://www.geocities.com/peacecrusader888/
Deborah Sharavi
2003-11-10 20:32:07 UTC
Permalink
Bill McGinnis <***@adams.patriot.net<wrote in message news:<***@corp.supernews.com<...
<The Ten Commandments, As Recorded The Bible, Exodus 20:1-17
< Latin Vulgate And English Revised Standard Version (RSV)

Who cares what the so-called "Ten Commandments" are in Latin?
The original is Hebrew.

<1 locutus quoque est Dominus cunctos sermones hos
<And God spoke all these words, saying,

Ex 20.1:
Vayedaber Elohim et kol-hadevarim ha'eleh lemor:
God spoke all these words, saying:

<2 ego sum Dominus Deus tuus qui eduxi te de terra Aegypti de domo
<servitutis
< "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt,
<out of the house of bondage.

Ex 20.2
Anochi Adonay Eloheycha asher hotseticha me'erets Mitsrayim mibeyt
avadim
I am the Lord your God who brought you out of Egypt from the place of
slavery.

<3 non habebis deos alienos coram me
< "You shall have no other gods before me.

Ex 20.3
Lo yihyeh lecha elohim acherim al-panay.
Don't have any other gods before Me.

<4 non facies tibi sculptile neque omnem similitudinem quae est in
caelo
<desuper et quae in terra deorsum nec eorum quae sunt in aquis sub
<terra
< "You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of
<anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or
<that is in the water under the earth;

Ex 20.4
Lo ta'aseh-lecha fesel vechol-temunah asher bashamayim mima'al
va'asher ba'arets mitachat va'asher bamayim mitachat la'arets
Don't make [such] gods by any carved statue or picture of anything in
the heaven above, on the earth below, or in the water below the land.

<5 non adorabis ea neque coles ego sum Dominus Deus tuus fortis
zelotes
<visitans iniquitatem patrum in filiis in tertiam et quartam
<generationem eorum qui oderunt me
<you shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the LORD your God
<am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the
<children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me,

Ex 20.5
Lo-tishtachaveh lahem velo ta'ovdem ki anochi Adonay Eloheycha El kana
poked avon avot al-banim al-shileshim ve'al-ribe'im leson'ay
Don't bow down to [such gods] or worship them. I am God your Lord, a
God who demands exclusive worship and where My enemies are concerned,
I keep in mind the sin of the fathers for [their] descendants, to the
third and fourth [generation].

<6 et faciens misericordiam in milia his qui diligunt me et
custodiunt
<praecepta mea
<but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep
<my commandments.

Ex 20.6
Ve'oseh chesed la'alafim le'ohavay uleshomrey mitsvotay.
But for those who love Me and keep My commandments, I show love for
thousands [of generations].

<7 non adsumes nomen Domini Dei tui in vanum nec enim habebit
insontem
<Dominus eum qui adsumpserit nomen Domini Dei sui frustra
<"You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain; for the
<LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain.

Ex 20.7
Lo tisa et-shem-Adonay Eloheycha lashav ki lo yenakeh Adonay et
asher-yisa et-shmo lashav.
Don't take the name of God your Lord illegally, God will not allow the
one who takes His name illegally to go unpunished.

<8 memento ut diem sabbati sanctifices
<"Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Ex 20.8
Zachor et-yom haShabat lekadsho
Remember the seventh day to keep it holy.

<9sex diebus operaberis et facies omnia opera tua
<Six days you shall labor, and do all your work;

Ex 20.9
Sheshet yamim ta'avod ve'asita chol-melachtecha.
You can work during six days and do all your tasks.

<10 septimo autem die sabbati Domini Dei tui non facies omne opus tu
et
<filius tuus et filia tua servus tuus et ancilla tua iumentum tuum et
<advena qui est intra portas tuas
<but the seventh day is a sabbath to the LORD your God; in it you
<shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your
<anservant, or your maidservant, or your cattle, or the sojourner
<who is within your gates;

Ex 20.10
Veyom hashvi'i Shabat l'Adonay Eloheycha lo ta'aseh chol-melachah atah
uvincha-uvitecha avdecha va'amatcha uvehemtecha vegercha asher
bish'areycha.
But the seventh day is the Sabbath to God your Lord. Don't do anything
that constitutes work, you, your son, your daughter, your slave, your
maid, your animal, and the foreigner in your gates.

<11 sex enim diebus fecit Dominus caelum et terram et mare et omnia
quae
<in eis sunt et requievit in die septimo idcirco benedixit Dominus
<diei sabbati et sanctificavit eum
<for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all
<that is in them, and rested the seventh day; therefore the LORD
<blessed the sabbath day and hallowed it

Ex 20.11
Ki sheshet-yamim asah Adonay et-hashamayim ve'et-ha'arets et-hayam
ve'et-kol-asher-bam vayanach bayom hashvi'i al-ken berach Adonay
et-yom haShabat vayekadeshehu.
In six days God made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that
is in them, but he rested on the Seventh. God therefore blessed the
Seventh day and made it holy.

<12 honora patrem tuum et matrem tuam ut sis longevus super terram
quam
<Dominus Deus tuus dabit tibi
<"Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the
<landwhich the LORD your God gives you.

Ex 20.12
Kaved et-avicha ve'et-imecha lema'an ya'arichun yameycha al ha'adamah
asher-Adonay Eloheycha noten lach.
Honor your father and mother so you will live long on the land that
God your Lord is giving you.

<13 non occides
< "You shall not kill.

Ex 20.13
Lo tirtsach. Lo tin'af. Lo tignov. Lo-ta'aneh vere'acha ed shaker.
Don't murder. Don't commit adultery. Don't steal. Don't
testify as a false witness against your neighbor.

<14 non moechaberis
< "You shall not commit adultery.

Ex 20.14
Lo tachmod beyt re'echa. Lo tachmod eshet re'echa ve'avdo va'amato
veshoro vachamoro vechol asher lere'echa.
Don't be envious of your neighbor's house. Don't be envious of your
neighbor's wife, his slave, his maid, his ox, his donkey, or anything
else that is your neighbor's.

<15 non furtum facies
<"You shall not steal.

Ex 20.15
Vechol-ha'am ro'im et-hakolot ve'et-halapidim ve'et kol hashofar
ve'et-hahar ashen vayar ha'am vayanu'u vaya'amdu merachok.
All the people saw the sounds, the flames, the blast of the ram's
horn, and the mountain smoking. The people trembled when they saw it,
keeping their distance.

<16 non loqueris contra proximum tuum falsum testimonium
<"You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

Ex 20.16
Vayomru el-Moshe daber-atah imanu venishma'ah ve'al-yedaber imanu
Elohim pen-namut.
They said to Moses, 'You speak to us, and we will listen. But let God
not speak with us any more, for we will die if He does'

<17 non concupisces domum proximi tui nec desiderabis uxorem eius
non
<servum non ancillam non bovem non asinum nec omnia quae illius sunt
<"You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your
< neighbor's wife, or his manservant, or his maidservant, or his ox,
or
< his ass, or anything that is your neighbor's."

Ex 20.17
Vayomer Moshe el-ha'am al-tira'u ki leva'avur nasot etchem ba
ha'Elohim uva'avur tiheyeh yir'ato al-pneychem levilti techeta'u.
Moses said to the people, 'Do not be afraid, God only came to raise
you up. His fear will then be on your faces, and you will not sin.'

I should charge for instruction.

Deborah
Daniel Jetson
2003-11-11 18:24:30 UTC
Permalink
�
���� The Ten Commandments, As Recorded The Bible, Exodus 20:1-17
������ Latin Vulgate And English Revised Standard Version (RSV)
1�� locutus quoque est Dominus cunctos sermones hos
��� And God spoke all these words, saying,
2�� ego sum Dominus Deus tuus qui eduxi te de terra Aegypti de domo
��� servitutis
�� "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt,
��� out of the house of bondage.
Which is a myth because Egypt never had slave, they paid their
workers.
�
3�� non habebis deos alienos coram me
�� "You shall have no other gods before me.
�
4�� non facies tibi sculptile neque omnem similitudinem quae est in caelo
��� desuper et quae in terra deorsum nec eorum quae sunt in aquis sub
��� terra
�� "You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of
��� anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or
��� that is in the water under the earth;
5�� non adorabis ea neque coles ego sum Dominus Deus tuus fortis zelotes
��� visitans iniquitatem patrum in filiis in tertiam et quartam
��� generationem eorum qui oderunt me
��� you shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the LORD your God
��� am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the
��� children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me,
6�� et faciens misericordiam in milia his qui diligunt me et custodiunt
��� praecepta mea
��� but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep
��� my commandments.
7�� non adsumes nomen Domini Dei tui in vanum nec enim habebit insontem
��� Dominus eum qui adsumpserit nomen Domini Dei sui frustra
��� "You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain; for the
��� LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain.
8�� memento ut diem sabbati sanctifices
��� "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9�� sex diebus operaberis et facies omnia opera tua
��� Six days you shall labor, and do all your work;
10�� septimo autem die sabbati Domini Dei tui non facies omne opus tu et
���� filius tuus et filia tua servus tuus et ancilla tua iumentum tuum et
���� advena qui est intra portas tuas
���� but the seventh day is a sabbath to the LORD your God; in it you
���� shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your
���� manservant, or your maidservant, or your cattle, or the sojourner
���� who is within your gates;
11�� sex enim diebus fecit Dominus caelum et terram et mare et omnia quae
���� in eis sunt et requievit in die septimo idcirco benedixit Dominus
���� diei sabbati et sanctificavit eum
���� for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all
���� that is in them, and rested the seventh day; therefore the LORD
���� blessed the sabbath day and hallowed it
12�� honora patrem tuum et matrem tuam ut sis longevus super terram quam
���� Dominus Deus tuus dabit tibi
��� "Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the
���� landwhich the LORD your God gives you.
13�� non occides
���� "You shall not kill.
14�� non moechaberis
���� "You shall not commit adultery.
15�� non furtum facies
���� "You shall not steal.
16�� non loqueris contra proximum tuum falsum testimonium
��� "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
17�� non concupisces domum proximi tui nec desiderabis uxorem eius non
���� servum non ancillam non bovem non asinum nec omnia quae illius sunt
��� "You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your
���� neighbor's wife, or his manservant, or his maidservant, or his ox, or
���� his ass, or anything that is your neighbor's."
The Ten Commandments are a list of property rights violations.
�

Ten Commandments, Chapter 20 of Exodus
1.� Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

You are my property

2.� Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image.

I am my own property don't make my image, you have no right.

3.� Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain

I made you, you have no right to belittle me.

4.� Remember the sabbth day, to keep it holy

I made you, you are to remember me.

5.� Honour thy father and thy mother

You are the property of your father and mother keep their
lineage.

6.� Thou shalt not kill

Everything is God's property you have no right to interfere in
his plan and kill his property.

7.� Thou shalt not commit adultery

You have no right to take another man's property (women and
children are the property of the father or the husband Deu 22:28-30).
�

8.� Thou shalt not steal

Don't take another man's property

9.� Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

This leads to the loss of another mans property.

10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's

They used to give what you long for, it is like stealing, as well
as to long for another man's wife is like having sex with her
it is the same as stealing his property. Lust in your heart for a
woman is the same as adultery.
�
�
�
�
�

The same applies to the concept of an 'exclusively homosexually
orientated person.' This was a discovery of only 150 years ago.
Go to the Bible and it simply is not there. Often, people speak
of the clear Biblical teaching about how to deal pastorally
with homosexual people, but that is a real howler. The Bible
knows nothing of the existence of homosexual people. No doubt
there were such people in the ancient world and others would
have had the experience of engaging with them, but they were
blind to their existence as 'homosexually orientated people'
because they did not yet have the concept of 'exclusive
homosexual orientation' with which to order their raw
experiences.
By Dr Carnley is a Cambridge PhD Archbishop of Perth
�
�
Tim
2003-11-13 23:45:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Daniel Jetson
 
2   ego sum Dominus Deus tuus qui eduxi te de terra Aegypti de domo
    servitutis
   "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt,
    out of the house of bondage.
Which is a myth because Egypt never had slave, they paid their
workers.
Egypt had slavery until the late dynastic period, as per the context
of the Latin word servitutis. It is generally accepted that Egypt
supported "debt slavery" or indentured servitude, which seem precisely
what the Bible describes in many places. Some documents from the era
support that methods were current by which people would be born into
slavery, but the situations were not explicitly described.
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